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Still no Nationwide DAB Radio

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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,455 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    In my experience 4G or 3G reception can be pretty patchy even on some of the main arterial routes across the country, let alone in the more remote parts. Even where it's possible to set streaming music apps to buffer ahead to reduce problems with poor reception, it can still be difficult at times.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,085 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    This was my experience for sure. It was often worse in the evenings too. Back when TuneIn Pro supported timeshifting I'd often go back a minute to give myself a longer buffer but they removed that feature now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,455 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    I listen to Radio Paradise a lot which has a handy feature to download as many hours as you want to listen completely offline. I have it set to 6 hours and it automatically fills it up whenever I have WiFi connectivity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I'd say most people are seeking alternative choices on the internet to the abysmal FM choices in rural Ireland.





  • Just a point: 3G is already being shut down as it’s its no longer seeing much use. 4G and 5G LTE is reusing the spectrum. Most of the 2G spectrum will also switch the 5G, with an ability to support a small amount of 900 MHz 2G, using virtualisation basically just for universal backwards compatibility with some old devices.

    Rural 5G coverage genuinely is getting much better as it pushes into the lower frequencies.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,170 ✭✭✭limnam


    What makes my blood boil is people at a time when there was never a better time to be alive for radio/technology/choice whinging about some channel hardly anyone listens to not on a technology nearly half the country couldn't get in the first place.

    Who are you paying to listen to RTE gold?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5 Bryant Street


    The gas thing is, if DAB had been rolled out here during the Celtic tiger days and was now ticking over pumping out a dozen jukebox stations , the same halfwits who keep going on about it would still be here asking why isn't the BBC available on it, it's a disgrace that RTE "blocked" the BBC.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,060 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    that wouldn't be happening at all seeing as the reasons why the BBC wouldn't be broadcasting here would be available for people to find out.

    you under estimate people's capability to find information by a substantial milage.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    and how is that choice going to be paid for?

    Even in Dublin, the FM band isn't full and TXFM couldn't stay afloat a couple of years ago. The advertising isn't there to sustain any more stations, and as for licence fee... 🙄

    People say we should have this, this and this but don't want to pay for any of it.

    There's zero justification for DAB in Ireland. There's only so many stations a population of 5m can sustain, especially given the highly restrictive BAI licensing conditions.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,058 ✭✭✭Declan A Walsh


    Alternative rock. It started life as Phantom, initially as a pirate. The rename to TXFM was the last throw of the dice.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    ah right thanks , yes i think i heard of phantom before



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,060 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    your last statement says it all.

    the BAI'S restrictive licensing conditions.

    your claims are only correct under those, there is no evidence either way they are correct in general because we operate the highest cost regulatory model in europe if not the world, are possibly the highest cost country to do radio and we have a very restrictive model.

    there is every justification to remove the effective prohibitions on DAB in ireland and to remove the barriers to entry.

    if then you are proven correct that there is no further justification for more stations then so be it, the actual market will have and be able to decide that themselves.

    but until then, how things are under the current model aren't proof of anything outside of that model.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,060 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    under the highest cost model possible.

    again, that's actually proof that the current model is unsustainable, rather then proof that ireland couldn't support more stations if the operators themselves were allowed to decide their own business model, because none of us actually do know, or can know the actual state of play if we had a modern model.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The Ocean FMs, Highland Radios, etc etc wouldn't take kindly to having Dublin, Cork, etc stations in their backyard on DAB eating their advertising lunch.

    This is why the commercial radio stations had zero interest in it.

    There is no point setting up a whole new nationwide broadcasting system at considerable cost when FM isn't full anywhere, even in Dublin.

    Sure, open up FM to low-power local "garden shed" type operations if you want, but they'll find it very hard to survive unless their owner/operator is willing to bankroll them. We could have more temporary licences like Xmas FM, maybe local authorities / chambers of commerce would be willing to fund temp licences for a couple of weeks for a local festival etc?

    Meanwhile the BAI is fine with mysterious backers from outside the state bankrolling heavy loss-making stations, and those stations broadcasting completely one-sided propaganda and commentary on political matters, provided those stations are designated "religious" 🙄

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,060 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    to be fair that's just tough **** though.

    it's commercial radio, so what the ocean fm and highland radios of this world want should only amount to them expressing an opinion rather then being able to stop others.

    lets remove the barriers and let the actual market decide on whether there is or isn't any point in setting up a whole new broadcasting system nation wide, or on a local basis, or whatever they wish to spend their money on.

    if they decide not to once the barriers are removed, then so be it, job done, no further arguments can be had.

    but while the ability to decide whether one wants to spend their money is prevented by a small few and the regulator they fund, while others tell someone else there is no point in them spending their money cause reasons, then this argument is not going anywhere for quite a while yet.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    That's a recipe for destroying local radio altogether, with only nationwide commercial operators left.

    Without protection in their local market none of the stations in smaller areas could survive.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,391 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Realistically if DAB expanded in Ireland it would be Bauer/Wireless spin off jukeboxes and the RTE stations. I can’t see any small operations having stations viable due to the upfront and transmission costs

    Which would mean cannibalising local radio for automated playlist stations effectively. Is that such a good idea?

    Launching commercial DAB multiplexes is in no way a one way ticket to this imaginary choice filled radio utopia. We have enough bandwidth for additional stations on FM at present should there be a need for more ones.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,060 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    not necessarily, it depends on multiple factors and any competition would come with allowing local operators to decide their own content and business model as well.

    the reality is that as it stands, due to the BAI's failure to modernise beyond 1989, and the model of regulation and everything else we have, local radio as we know it is on borrowed time, it's a question of when and how it ends.

    Post edited by end of the road on

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,060 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    a lot of the costs currently are unnecessary costs implemented via regulation.

    there will always be unavoidable costs of running a station but much of the costs can be removed making small stations viable.

    there would be room for local and national DAB and carriage costs could be regulated across the board including 2rn as well.

    if local radio is engaging and provides quality content then it will survive because the audience will listen because the content is quality content.

    remaining fm frequencies can be opened up as well, either way we will have the full market based approach we should have got in 1989, and what effectively proceeded 1989.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    With that attitude even smartphones and internet would have to be banned, just for Ocean FM or Highland Radio to continue to exist a a single source of information.

    I honestly don't really enjoy the Irish local stations for that Anti DAB attitude. They think they are the only ones who do propper radio journalism on a local level, like some historic monarch's divine right - and exactly for that attitude I avoid them. In the end, more and more listeners will consider online alternatives, and there is lot's available in terms of streams on smartphones.

    With this attitude the negative status quo regarding DAB will sadly continue: "Ireland is too small", whilst Norway has a similar population and lot's more mountains and fiords to cover, "the ship has sailed" and "now it's too late", whilst at the same time France is rolling out Metropolitain 1 and 2 nationwide, same as the Czech Republic aiming for DAB by 2030.

    Or even worse, it'll kill local radio, - it hasn't done so in Scotland or Northern Ireland.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭rogue-entity


    You could make an argument today that all the FM stations are cookie-cutter CHR jukeboxes, with all the pirate operators being cookie-cutter dance/club stations, there's certainly more choice online for now. You can make the argument too that transmission costs are prohibitive for small operations but dozens of community radio stations broadcasting on FM would suggest it's not an issue; DAB isn't wildly more expensive, and won't need to be if we don't treat DAB and FM spectrum the way we treat mobile phone spectrum.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,058 ✭✭✭Declan A Walsh


    Actually most of the pirate operators these days (certainly in Dublin) are oldies oriented. Most of the dance operators from recent years, including the "pandemic" years, went online!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,085 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    This is my biggest want from Irish radio (FM or DAB), a good oldies station. I'm sure the pirates are seeing that gap.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,873 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    transmission costs are prohibitive for small operations but dozens of community radio stations broadcasting on FM would suggest it's not an issue

    But none of these community stations are financially viable, they rely on volunteers to do the work and public funding to keep the lights on. That won't scale to commercial stations on DAB.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Especially not given the cost of establishing a network with nationwide coverage.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I think most Irish dislike the idea of DAB some even hate it, - with comments like "now it's too late" and "the ship has sailed", whilst other countries in the EU are actively doing the DAB roll out towards 2030.

    Maybe the attitude will change, once BBC Radio 5 and TalkSport are no longer available on MW and BBC Radio 4 is no longer available on LW?

    I also don't know if it's even legally possible to have some UK stations on DAB in Ireland in the future, like Radio 4, Radio 5 and possibly an Irish version of Talksport? ( There is one for for the 5 Million plus Scots in Scotland )

    And then besides legal hurdles there would the "why should they?" and the "ever evil Brits" kind of discussion to overcome as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,060 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    certainly if the infrastructure was to be available, it would be legal for the BBC or any foreign broadcaster to use that infrastructure if the powers that be make it legal to do so.

    as it currently stands they can't as it's not legal for them to do so and there is no infrastructure obviously.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    a 'short-lived' DAB service in Sligo area a few years back called freeDAB , dont really know what happened , more than likely was illegal and shut down I suppose , but i was so surprised (in a excited way) when I went out to my car one day and done a search for DAB stations and this showed up with a few other stations!

    Anyone got any more info on it or what happened to it?




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,170 ✭✭✭limnam


    I've been listening to radio4/5 online for about 25 years. I don't think MW/LW availability would matter a jot.

    We currently have access to millions of radio stations. Decision paralysis is more an issue now than DAB.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,560 ✭✭✭✭L1011




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