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DART+ (DART Expansion)

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    #9002
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,645 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842587#Comment_120842587

    They had three suggestions for closing Merrion Gates - all left the line unchanged. The one going through the carparks was the only one that had merit, and was the cheapest.



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    #9003
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,319 ✭✭✭prunudo


    I'd like to see them go for an underpass, be nice to see them going for more complex civil engineering solutions that push the boundaries a bit. As a rule, they're usually very reserved with their approaches here.



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    #9004
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,831 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120847468#Comment_120847468

    I don't think an underpass is realistic. There is only a short approach with which to reduce the level, probably would get enough clearance for cars but not higher vehicles. At least with going over it, you don't have to worry about height restrictions for vehicles. Dropping the level of the trackbed and lowering the OHLE would help getting over and back down, if it was possible to do so.

    I'd say the state will have to buy Merrion Hall, then use the rest of the site to provide community facilities or whatever to try pacify the locals. People can either accept it or deal with the gates being closed for most of the day (along with Sydney Parade).



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    #9005
    Consonata
    Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Consonata


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120847915#Comment_120847915

    I think they either accept it, or Dart+ in the area just won't happen to be honest. IÉ won't increase freq on the line with the level crossings preserved, especially given how many headaches it gives them already.



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    #9006
    brianc89
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    Would an underpass be a bad idea with regard to drainage and potential coastal flooding? You have to consider the long term here, it's right next to the coast...



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    #9007
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,645 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848805#Comment_120848805

    Well, I suggest you look at the plans that were published at the time.

    An underpass was proposed UNDER the Merrion Gates for pedestrians and cyclists - just metres from the tide at Merrion Strand - drainage - what drainage?

    The road going through the carpark has to either be raised up 5 metres on a bridge or drop 5 metres in an underpass. That is to accommodate vehicles, or the trains.

    The distance for the gradient for either solution is the same.

    The advantages for the underpass:- less visual impact; most work would be earth moving, civil reinforcement; the spoil could be used to fill and extend the promenade; the actual bridge for the trains could be slotted in over a weekend like they did for the Sallins extension.

    Perhaps the bridge might be cheaper, but I would not know if that would be the case. I would expect it would be more disruptive for the Dart.



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    #9008
    ArcadiaJunction
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭ArcadiaJunction


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848805#Comment_120848805

    Yikes and Orca's eating D4 types alive because we didn't worship Greta properly. If we built a bridge there could be potential Cybernetic Cthulhu attacks. We need to think long term as you say.



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    #9009
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Arcadia, cut out the climate change skeptic stuff. DART related material only please.



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    #9010
    dublincc2
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭dublincc2


    I meant a permanent service, not just two trains a day. Newry being the northern commuter terminus instead of Dundalk on all services.



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    #9011
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    The rail report is out, and it's got a hint of the direction of the Dart network post Dart+.

    A modified line linking Heuston and Drogheda. This consists of a new tunnel connecting Heuston and Spencer Dock via Temple Bar and Tara Street, four-tracking the northern line between Spencer Dock and Clongriffin, and a new line inland from Clongriffin to Drogheda. A spur to Dublin Airport from Clongriffin is included.


    − A link between Maynooth and Adamstown to separate longer-distance trains from the DART network and allow trains from the Sligo line to run to Heuston and Dublin Airport.


    − A new 200km/h double-tracked electrified alignment between Hazelhatch and Portarlington to speed up services between Dublin and Cork and Limerick. Includes links to the existing line at Kildare to allow through services to and from Waterford and Galway. 

    It seems to be aimed at separating the Dart Trains from the commuter trains on the Northern line and the Maynooth line



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    #9012
    sandyxxx
    Registered Users Posts: 239 ✭✭sandyxxx


    any mention of a double track south of Bray in the report?!



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    #9013
    G_R
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭G_R


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120896486#Comment_120896486

    Not that I saw.

    There is talk of an hourly Greystones to Rosslare service if that's of any interest



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    #9014
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,627 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120652428#Comment_120652428

    And a grade seperated junction for the Galway and Waterfords line ?



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    #9015
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,401 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Indeed the proposals for the GDA are to be applauded and it provides the basis of 2 fast frequent and reliable rail systems one DART and one Intercity that can operate independently of eachother.

    I wouldn't be in favour or attempting to 4 track the northern line and building a branch line to the airport. A much smoother result could be achieved by just building a new line from Heuston to the airport and operating that as a through station, include a stop at Glasnevin if required. I suspect the reason for the current proposals is to avoid replicating part of the metrolink route, which in practice is common in most countries as they are two different beasts but uneducated perceptions and politics and all that.

    The same document has some really strange rural lines included, most notably the €5bn Clones railway, unfortunately which gives it a waft of make believe.



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    #9016
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,665 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    “A much smoother result could be achieved by just building a new line from Heuston to the airport and operating that as a through station, include a stop at Glasnevin if required.”

    But this report isn’t planning to do that and didn’t even seem to look into it.

    To be honest, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone but you suggest this.



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    #9017
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,391 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120898785#Comment_120898785

    Indeed. One of the best things about the report in the context is it raises several issues and puts them rightly on the table.

    1. Segregating DART and Intercity services from Maynooth inwards, by diverting the intercity services via a new alignment into Heuston.
    2. Addressing speed restrictions around the Curragh and potential congestion between Hazelhatch and Portarlington with a new alignment
    3. The issues between Clongriffin and Connolly, and also between Connolly and Drogheda (a veritable minefield).

    The biggest issue imo it completely fails to address is the Bray/Greystones issue. Wexford trains running via Waterford is a fudge. The real issues that need addressing are much further north than that.



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    #9018
    Disco24
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Disco24


    How do 4 track city to clongriffen?, its demolition of a lot of houses, stations, bridges, roads.. sounds great and much needed but how realistic.



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    #9019
    brianc89
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    I assume with the plans to divert Sligo Intercity to Heuston, then all DartSW trains will use Heuston West station, via PPT to Spencer Dock and via Glasnevin.



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    #9020
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    New Hazelhatch-Portarlington would make it very easy to extend the DART along the existing line from Hazelhatch further southwest, as far as Kildare Town.



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    #9021
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,831 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120899216#Comment_120899216

    The idea of extending DART further is not a good idea. DART needs to be limited to a specific area where a high level of frequency and fast journey times are achieved. Further extending DART only creates more problems, particularly on that line as extending the existing DART electrical system would be very expensive.

    I think it would be better if DART only operated to/from HH (at a push, S&N) on that line and then have separate outer commuter services from Athlone/Portlaoise/Athy which would stop in the other Kildare towns but only one other station between HH and Heuston.

    A new alignment west of HH is in the next 50 years bracket, we are going to have to do a lot with the existing alignment in the meantime.



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    #9022
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,391 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    IE are gone to the market for consultation regarding the construction of DART+

    https://www.etenders.gov.ie/epps/pmc/viewPmc.do?resourceId=1965107

    This is only a preliminary market consultation but good to see them moving in that direction. Estimated value of works is €3bn



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    #9023
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,831 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120901982#Comment_120901982

    They're casting the net wide;

    1.1        Purpose of this Market Consultation

    IÉ are currently developing the procurement and contracting strategy for the DART+ Programme and are keen to seek your views and opinions to inform and shape our strategy. We understand that there will be a number of other projects in Ireland at the same time as the DART+ Programme and we would like to develop a procurement and contracting strategy that can attract the maximum interest form the market. The approach to the market consultation is as follows:-

    1.   Upon expressing your interest, you will receive this information memorandum and a short questionnaire and are requested to return it, via etenders, no later than 6th September 2023;

    2.   You are requested to register your interest to partake in the roadshows and interviews by 9th August 2023. As part of registering your interest in this market consultation, could you indicate the roadshow that your company is likely to attend. This is to assist with organising them.

    3.   In advance of the roadshows and one-to-one interviews, IÉ will issue an overview of the proposed packaging and contracting strategy;

    4.   IÉ intend to conduct roadshows in Madrid, Lisbon, London, Dublin and Paris.

    5.   Details of the roadshows will be confirmed closer to the time. The roadshow will have two aspects: public presentations and private one-to-one interviews.

    a.   The presentation will enable us to provide further information in relation to the DART+ Programme and proposed packaging and contracting approach.

    b.   The one-to-one interviews will cover key areas that may help us to better understand your position and the market. We would like to discuss your capacity and appetite to undertake the DART+ Programme. All this information will help us formulate a packaging and contracting strategy that is aligned with the market. 

    Also says that DART+ Coastal South Project will include "Elimination of level crossings between the City Centre and Greystones", crucially the word "all" is missing.



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    #9024
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,401 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120898820#Comment_120898820

    So?



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    #9025
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,665 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120904790#Comment_120904790

    It is completely unrealistic and a pretty terrible idea and will never happen.



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    #9026
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,401 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120907008#Comment_120907008

    It's actually a really good idea, it would solve a lot of issues affecting capacity on the railway permanently. I don't assign much weight to your opinion in any case.

    As for it never happening you're probably correct because we live in a relative backwater in terms of railways. But again, what's your point?



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    #9027
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,665 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120908525#Comment_120908525

    What is your point?

    You admit yourself it will never happen, so why even bring it up, specially as it is off topic for this thread, has nothing to do with DART+



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    #9028
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,401 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120908981#Comment_120908981

    It was in reply to a post about the recently published rail strategy, its a related topic on a discussion board you see.



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    #9029
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,665 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120910514#Comment_120910514

    Yes and I replied to your reply that your idea is not part of that published report and as far as I’m aware has never been considered by any government department or plan. It is purely in your head.

    This is a discussion forum and I’m quite happy to discuss your idea with you. But given one word replies like “so?” is not a discussion.



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    #9030
    ricimaki
    Registered Users Posts: 670 ✭✭✭ricimaki


    Came across this video, providing a good summary of the Dart+ and Metrolink projects.

    There's nothing new here, except some interesting pronunciations of some placenames!. Maybe worth a watch for those not the most familiar with the projects.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=con3UmkWiA8




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    #9031
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958183#Comment_120958183

    Not sure if he was accurate in saying that all Metrolink stations except OCS will be built cut and cover ...can anyone confirm?



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