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Triton T90SR max inlet pressure

  • 17-07-2023 5:43pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭


    Hi,Brand new T90SR pump clicking on start up. Triton service guy changed pump but same thing happened.He then told me I would need a pressure reducing valve.Shower is on ground floor and fed from raised up tank in attic of 2 storey house but shower spec says in can take up to 10 bar. I think he is wrong.Thoughts please.



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭John.G


    It says a maximum head of 10M but you shouldn't have any problem with it on the ground floor IMO.

    Does the clicking stop once the shower is running? You might also check the flow rate by turning the temperature control to fully cold and holding a bucket under the shower head for exactly 30 secs, then measure with a 1L container, milk bottle etc and X 2 to give the flowrate in LPM, should be a minimum of 8LPM.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    10 bar is for a mains fed shower. Definitely not for a pumped electric.

    I agree with John that ground floor should be fine but if 2nd pump has the same issue then Id be willing to place a large bet that it's a plumbing issue rather than the shower

    Edit: I don't suppose you are in a home with massive ceilings? 8 foot ceiling is about standard



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    Getting 8 LPM,Ceilings are standard height. Clicking stops after about 1 min and pump runs smooth Any other moving part in shower that could cause this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭John.G


    The only obvious item that clicks is the TCO (thermal overtemp cutout) but this should only happen if the temperature exceeds 48C. you will hear it clicking off approx 15 secs after shutting off the shower but this is quite normal and a once off.

    Does the shower reach normal showering temp in less than 30 secs?, say 15/20 secs.

    Anyhow I doubt you would hear the TCO clicking with the shower running despite its silent running pump.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Seems strange that the engineer didn't put a pressure gage on it to confirm that there is too much pressure before telling you that it's a pressure issue. From what you are saying you can't have 10m of head height.

    I'd suggest getting the installer back. Your contract is with them and not Triton



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    Heats up ok.Just tried a few things. No noise when running fully cold. When turning to hot clicking starts and water pulses just past falf way point between hot and cold.Moving a bit more towards hot it stops. Happens on all three power levels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    I bougbt the shower last week and bathroom guys installed it. If shower faulty Triton responsible,No? Could it be solinoid or flow valve?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    It's all a big mess.

    Installer should always supply. Your contract is now with the retailer for the shower and installer for the installation. If installer supplies then they are responsible for shower and installation.

    You have no legal contract with Triton themselves.

    Definitely not the solenoid. Tiny possibility it's the flow valve but much more likely a plumbing issue. I assume the shower has a direct dedicated feed from the cold water tank rather than tapping into a 3/4 inch pipe feeding other things like the toilet and basin. I'd expect the engineer would have flagged this a a possible reason if it was plumbed incorrectly

    I suggest calling the installer & ask him how much head height would he guess. Assuming it's no way near 10m then I would call Triton again and ask to speak to the head engineer. You might have better luck with him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    Head height at my house about 16 feet between shower head and tank outlet pipe.Seperate pipe. Just wondering if installed correctly what could possibly be wrong with shower unit. Triton guy telling me i need a PRV cant be right. I know someone with one of these showers on the ground floor of a three storey house without needing a PRV on cold feed pipe.

    ..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭John.G


    Maybe a non return valve installed for some reason and faulty/sticking?, you could remove the supply at the shower (but needs cover removal), and check the gravity flowrate. Is this a new install or replacing a old shower with the existing piping?. Check the filter if you do remove the cover.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    All brand new,Shower unit,new pipes. Seem strange that Triton engineer says i need a PRV on a shower thats probably fitted on the ground floor of a 2 storey house? Strange that. Has to be something in shower. As i said flow knob turned fully to left or rightvall is good.Only clicking between about 11 o clock to 2 o clock position



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭John.G


    Strange one, only other thought is to ensure that its gravity fed and not from the mains.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    He's already replaced the motor & these motors are bullet proof anyway so I'd rule out the motor. If plumbed correctly then it really only leaves the flow valve though I have only replaced 2 or 3 flow valves in the last 30 years. I have seen quite a few Mira Elite Qt & SE make a small squealing noise when flow valve (bottom dial) is at a certain position. Tiny noise and squeal is the type of noise I'd expect closing any valve. I can see why engineer assumed pressure issue as you seem to discribe a water hammer type of noise. He should have known the head height was OK from the height of the building & he should have verified it with a pressure gauge. It is possible that the triton engineer for your area is on holiday & they are using a plumber who might not have experience in repair.

    If the head height is good ask for Triton head engineer. He won't have a problem taking your call. Explain the head height & I'd be surprised if he doesn't send the engineer back or if you are in Dublin he might call in himself.

    If we supplied & fitted the shower and we heard that noise we would have taken another T90sr out of the van and fitted it. It's the simplest solution. If we had the same issue with the new shower then it's a plumbing issue. If we don't have the same issue then I'd throw the first one back to my supplier. I wouldn't waste time trying to find out what is wrong with the shower. Far quicker to put in a new one. This is why the tradesmen should always supply the materials imo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,720 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    An odd one. There doesn’t seem to be any logical reason to install a PRV.

    I would keep the pressure on Triton to come up with a solution.

    Are you certain the supply isn’t pumped elsewhere, or on mains?

    If you remove the shower head and hose does the presentation change at all?

    Has this new run of direct pipework from the attic tank just been installed?

    I would be inclined to suspect the shower given what you describe and I would exhaust options with Triton before looking for a not so obvious plumbing fault.

    Some photos and video would be great.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    Here is video. Notice noise is only when knob trurned towards centre position. No noise when fully to left or right.Solenoid has also been changed

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ndBwH5HDGAje2SrOuKworSEAo_rS5S3c/view?usp=drivesdk



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Did Triton replce the solenoid? I only ask because it was never going to be the solenoid. A solenoid can't fail in such a way to cause this. I'd be very disappointed in the engineer that thinks it could be the fault.

    I would think it's either the flow valve (I don't think it is) or it's a plumbing issue & not the shower. I suppose another tiny possibility is it had a faulty motor & engineer mixed good with bad & put the original one back in instead of the new one.

    The video doesn't show the water flow. I assume the flow is pulsating when it makes that sound?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    Yes water pulsing,Engineer replaced solenoid, Plumber says all good.

    Direct connection from tank with gate valve.

    Might need to replace complete unit so rule out shower but cant see what could be wrong with plumbing.All good at full flow with no noise/pulsing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    Sound seems to be coming from water inlet but filter clear.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    It's a strange one all right. I don't understand why engineer doesn't just swap out the shower. It can be done in less than 10 minutes. There would only have been one visit /call out. It would prove once & for all if it's the shower or plumbing at fault. Shower could be swapped back if proven not to be the problem.

    Personally I couldn't dedicate so much time & visits to a project like this.

    Did you get to talk to the Triton head engineer? James, I think, his name is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭John.G


    I would shut off the water supply to the shower at the CWST, remove the supply at the shower, restore the supply and measure it, if, and it probably is > than 8 LPM then they will simply have to replace the shower, no arguments.

    It doesn't t sound that healthy at any setting and does sound like a pump problem.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Like John says, I can't see it being a water pressure problem. The only time I saw water pressure from the tank being too much was in a Georgian type house in Dublin city. Shower was in the basement level & tank was several floors above. Each floor, except the basement, had really high ceilings. Slightly too much pressure for pumped electric but not enough for mains fed to function correctly in the summer months.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    Just checked flow rate with shower head removed.Its 9 LPM



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭John.G


    Thanks but thats not what I suggested, I would remove the supply pipe from the shower (needs shower cover removed) and just measure the gravity flow rate from the cold water storage tank, there can't be any argument then that the flowrate is insufficient, I know its flowing greater than 8LPM via the pump but any pump will provide the equivalent of another ~ 10M of static suction head (known as the NPSH).

    EDIT: Even easier and just as effective for measuremenr purposes, ensure power off at pull cord, turn the power selector switch to the cold position, turn the temperature control fully anticlockwise to the coldest position, remove the cover, two screws on top, one on the bottom, remove the filter cover & filter (first isolate the water supply) restore the water supply and measure the flowrate, there cannot be any arguments then re the plumbing. Also of course ensure the storage tank is refilling while using the shower.


    Post edited by John.G on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    Thanks,Good idea but how will a capture the water,it will shoot out of inlet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭John.G


    It shouldn't shoot out more than the length of the shower tray or bath, if you think it will,you will need another pair of hands to open the isol valve while you hold a bucket against/under it for 30 secs, if this is too difficult then you will get a fair idea of the flowrate if it shoots out which it should with 0.5 or 0.6bar behind it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    I have just done what you suggest and am getting a little bit above 8 LPM so flow rate ok.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭John.G


    Thats good, I would contact them and tell them that, also, if possible, email them the video, or show it to the next service person, they should then just replace the shower with a new one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    Does it invalidate warranty if I tell them I opened shower to check flow rate?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭John.G


    My neighbour got one of these installed just a year ago but had problems in getting it to run cool enough on setting 2 even with the temperature control fully anticlockwise so his installer repositioned the cover as per installation instructions and it seemed to run OK, I measured the flowrate just now and its only 6.4LPM fully anticlockwise and the control still has to be almost fully over now with a mains temp of 18.5C. On 1/2 power, setting 1, its set to one oclock which he normally uses in the summer, apart from that its running relatively quietly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    Does it invalidate warranty if I tell them I opened shower to check flow rate?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭John.G


    Sleeper12 will advise you on this, you opened it to check the filter and as you were at it you checked the flowrate??, if his advise is not to mention it then dont as your video is proof enough plus the fact that you are getting the designed full flow from the shower head.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    There is a Claus in all warrantys about only official engineers allowed to attempt repair. I'm sure they get plenty of warranty calls each year only to discover that DIY Dave has caused the damage. They would only invoke this clause if you caused damage to the shower. Checking the water pressure is perfectly fine.

    There are several possibilities here. The issue shows when shower is at a particular flow rate. This suggests valve needs replacing, engineer put back faulty motor / pump by mistake (I don't believe for a second that two motors from totally different batches have the same issue)I or a plumbing issue.

    Engineer states that you have too much pressure. You are only verifying that pressure is within the limits. There could be other plumbing issues that can cause the problem. Not very likely but a kink in qualpex, too many elbows etc could cause problems. I've seen "installers" use basin flexies rather than elbows. This can play havoc with the free flow of the water. You don't seem to have these plumbing problems. Dirt in the pipe could cause the issue you have. There is a problem when flow / pressure is a a particular level.

    You have proven that engineer was incorrect about the water pressure. On a return visit I would expect him to replace the motor again & the flow valve but the may just swap out the shower with a new one to find out once & for all if it's the shower or not. Personally I would do this first. If new shower works then I would bring faulty one to the workshop in triton. I just wouldn't be wasting my time swapping out parts on the job, on a rare situation like this, where it's time consuming to identify the problem.

    After rambling on, as I do, the short answer is I don't believe Triton will try to get out of the warranty because you tested the pressure. They are famous for their warranty & aftercare service though they don't always get it right the first time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    Ok,Shower running cold.

    Went to isolation valve a d turned on and off and heard this

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ABNY8mKuZEZhy29b39H64T3Cb4MoqII-/view?usp=drivesdk



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    Here is the pump moving.Could this be caused by the plumbing along with the slapping when isolation valve closed quickly

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AFPTYIm2tEWvjuc3c35fHjqRTTfNmJNy/view?usp=drivesdk



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,720 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    The plot thickens!

    Is this video recoded with the shower switched on?

    From the sounds, there certainly seems to be flow in that pipe? And at pressure higher than gravity from an attic tank.

    Is there a pump in the attic?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    Shower is on.That valve is on ground floor. Supply is from attic tank.Its about 3 feet above floor in attic. 2 storey house. No pump otber than shower built in pump.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    What is making the noise when you open the leaver valve?

    It sounds like back pressure / water hammer. You can expect this type of noise on a pressurised system. You would open a leave valve slowly on mains water because of this. You should be able to open the leaver valve quickly when gravity (tank) fed

    When you say it's fed from the tank, is it coming from a connection at the bottom of the tank? Some people see connection from the mains supply feeding the top of the tank & assume incorrectly that the water is coming from the tank. Having said that I would expect triton to pick up on it being mains fed if indeed it's mains fed.

    What is the installer saying about the water hammer noise when using the leaver valve?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    This noise is when pump on shower running cold. I can assure you its a cold feed pipe direct from bottom of tank. Triton guy never heard this. I just discovered this noise today. Maybe the shower pump veing on is causing the noise. Triton guy suggesting too much pressure on a shower that is desined for I bar seems mad. There cant be more than 0.5 bar in this situation. Could it be water hammer.Another poster here says no.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    And yet the sound when closing the leaver valve does indeed suggest that there is a water pressure or plumbing issue.

    It's a strange one.

    What was the make and model of the old shower? Or is this a first time installation?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭John.G


    It's easy to confirm for sure if it's tank fed as there will be make up through the ballcock when the shower is running.

    Perhaps check for a non return valve that may have been installed on the outlet from the tank.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    This is first time installation fed from tank. If not water pressure what other olumbing fault could it be?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    Could the noise be caused by negative pressure because shower pumo is running when level being opened or closed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    You are shutting off the water while running the shower? That's not a good idea if you are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    Ok,will have to try with shower off and see if noise still happens. Its like a slap that travels along the pipe. Any idea what would cause to move up and down as in video?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭John.G


    I think you said no noise from shower at full (cold) flow, switch the shower on, wait for 30 secs or so then switch off, check for noises.

    Have you ever looked into the CWST to see if at normal level and filling from ballcock, also if the tank is clean?. Are there two outlets from the tank?, there may be one going to the HW cylinder, the other feeds the bathroom with the shower supply Teed off it, older tanks may just have one outlet but this in itself shouldn't cause any problems.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    No noise at full flow,Cold,No noise at min flow,(knob turned fully clockwise.Noise only when knob between about 11 o clock and 3 o clock position.Always settles down after about a minute. Seperate feed from tank.Tank clean.Filling properly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Any feedback from the installer or Triton engineer yet?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Dermot224


    He will be with me on Monday. I really dont think he is an'Engineer'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,720 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    It’s not a protected title, anyone can refer to themselves as an ‘engineer’



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