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World's hottest day since records began

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭randomname2005


    I would be pro greening but even still it is hard not to feel that way sometimes. Saying to my kids and grandkids that we tried is what keeps me motivated.

    I think if we did better carbon footprint calculations and assigned emissions to the consumer rather than the producer, or did two sets of calculations so both sides can see, we would truly see how much we could improve by reducing the amount of crap we have shipped across the planet. Many countries have large emissions because they produce the stuff we buy and use. Or at least that is my understanding.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,211 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Many countries have large emissions because they produce the stuff we buy and use. Or at least that is my understanding.


    Yep, that's my understanding too



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Can't read it as I am blocked, although I have always voted for the Greens (including Clare Byrne is Dub SE by-election).

    This gobshite blocking me is symbolic of everything that's wrong with the party and movement



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,466 ✭✭✭✭M.T. Cranium


    This link gives some context, Antarctic sea ice has been more variable in recent years and is in a declining phase in 2023.


    http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_sea_ice



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    A recent paper in Nature predits that an ocean current, the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Current (AMOC), usually attributed with keeping the polar bears out of Ireland and Scotland - Ireland being at the same latitude as the southern end of Hudson Bay in Canada, where Polar Bears sort your rubbish for you - is on course to shut down between 2023 and 2095. So you can stop with the climate catastrophism about world's hottest day ever, fires everywhere, sea levels rising and Polar bears suffering, because the Polar Bears will be coming home and taking over the Wicklows.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,399 ✭✭✭✭Supercell


    I've read that the warming is enough to mitigate even the north atlantic drift shutting down by now. That will buy us a few years/decades of moderate temperate increases here and in Scandinavia or even stabilised temps as the rest of the world burns, eventually though it will start getting crazy warm even here. Its going to take a massive volcanic event to stop this now.

    Have a weather station?, why not join the Ireland Weather Network - http://irelandweather.eu/



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    Forest fires in continental Portugal

    Result of profound alterations in society and territorial consequences

    Luciano Lourenço, 2018

    J Med Geography

    The socioeconomic transformations that occurred in Portuguese society during the second half of the last century have led to a profound change in its age structure, with important repercussions in terms of sectors of activity. This in turn has led to a drastic reduction of workers in the primary sector, due to the rural exodus, a consequence of which was the abandonment of many agricultural areas and their transformation into forested areas.

    In turn, the abandonment of the agricultural-forestry-pastoral activity led to an accumulation of large amounts of fuel in the forest which, when weather conditions are favorable, feed forest fires.

    With the accelerated abandonment of farming activities-conditions conducive to the development of natural areas-, and with disinvestment in forests, forest fires have been growing increasingly bigger and there seems to have been little success in countering this terrible scourge that is wiping out greater space suitable for forestry.


    Interesting perspective on forest fires in Iberia. Large scale land abandonment to unmanaged forestry in 20th has accelerated the risk of significant fire events.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So your saying we should prepare for an ice age in Ireland as opposed to being burnt up?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,948 ✭✭✭Shoog


    So climate change causes Northern Europe to freeze - how is that not a climate catastrophe ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,948 ✭✭✭Shoog




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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,235 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Apocalyptic furnace heat and devastation ongoing in Italy as temps reach almost 50c. 🥵🥵🥵🥵


    My poor Sicily is burning. Temperatures have soared to a staggering 49 degrees Celsius. The situation has become extremely dire, with air quality severely compromised, making it difficult to breathe. It's like hell


    https://twitter.com/Elis_101/status/1683912068083208192?s=20

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Well if the AMOC shuts down, it is believed that may be a trigger for a galciation event. Strictly speaking, we have been in an Ice Age for about as long as humans have been around - 3 million years. During this time, large parts of the northern hemisphere are under a large ice sheet a couple of km thick and sea levels fall a lot. These are called glacial periods. Occasionally during this ice age, it warms up a bit and you get conditions such as we have been experiencing for the last 12,000 years or so. These are called interglacials. So when the Ice returns, it's just yet another glacial period within the Ice Age.

    Well that depends on whether you are a faithful follower of the church of climate change and fully subscribe to the dogma or not and so believe climate change caused it. It would be a catastrophe for mankind, but that has probably always been the case.

    The clique of climate 'scientists' who did the the original chicken little and said CO2 levels are rising (Mann et al), we are all going to die and it's man's fault, pulled off an amazing trick, they managed to kill off the terms that were originally used - Global Warming or Anthropogenic Global Warming - and get everyone to call it Climate Change instead.

    I think that is because they knew perfectly well that atmospheric CO2 and global average temperatures both rise dramaticially and very rapidly just before the onset of glaciation events. The other thing that is believed to happen is the AMOC shutting down. There is a fourth thing, involving Antarctic icebergs drifting way further north than normal, up around the lattitude of New Zealand, but that's most likely a consequence of the warming you get rather than a cause.

    By calling it Climate Change, they could then claim that if things start cooling, instead of warming, that they were right all along. They can't lose, no matter what the climate does, it can always be mans fault and they were right. Very clever insurance.

    Past interglacial periods have been shorter than this one, longer and of roughly the same span, so if the next interglacial period were to happen now or soon, it would be perfectly normal timing wise.

    If the next glaciation event were to kick off in my lifetime, I wouldn't believe for a second that it was caused by anthropogenic CO2 emissions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    That's shocking!

    Reminds me of a typical heatwave in Perth, 3 decades ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,466 ✭✭✭✭M.T. Cranium


    Looks like the extreme heat in parts of the Med region has backed off a bit with more seasonable temperatures on Wednesday. Monday and Tuesday saw some readings between 45 and 50 and a suspect higher max at Desfina, Greece near 60 C on Tuesday 25th (somebody might want to research whether that was fire-related).

    The severe heat is spreading in from the Sahara because of the depressed state of the jet stream over the Atlantic, forcing the normal superheated Saharan air masses to move northeast into the central and eastern Med. Coastal Tunisia had readings near 48 C on Tuesday, and this spread into parts of Sicily and southern Italy, Greece and western Turkey.

    Wednesday was quite a bit cooler in Sicily, readings between 30 and 35 C.

    It's a similar story in North America with severe heat confined to the southern half of the U.S., temperatures have been close to normal in the northern states and most of Canada.



  • Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭bluedex


    It doesn't mean that they are accurate either. That's the point.

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,409 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




  • Registered Users Posts: 22,409 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    What difference does it make if they are slightly inaccurate?

    They're so far beyond the normal range of temperature that even if the provisiobal measurements are out by 10% it still means we absolutely need to take climate change extremely seriously and do everything we can to curtail it. We're nowhere near the end game here. As hot as it is this year, it's getting hotter decade on decade.

    What would it take for you to agree that we need stop climate change?



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,409 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Sigh

    You're doing the equivalent of walking into a burning building and pointing at some of the furniture that hasn't burst into flames yet to say 'nothing to see here'



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,409 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If the AMOC collapses it will bring a whole host of other extremely serious changes to global climate that will affect global rainfall patterns as well as disrupting the entire Atlantic ocean food web. Land based agriculture and fish stocks will be disrupted at the same time. More food insecurity as well as large sudden sea level increases along the North American eastern seaboard that will flood major parts of Boston and NYC



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,466 ✭✭✭✭M.T. Cranium


    This entire discussion is of course meaningless unless we could somehow accurately state what the temperatures would have been in Sicily or anywhere else, in the absence of a fossil-fuel advanced economy on the planet. If the answer to that is 48.0 instead of 49.0, then is that really something we could "fix" since 48.0 is more or less the same problem for the residents of Sicily as 49.0?

    I looked at climate stats for Catania, the all-time record was 46.0 and the max on Tuesday was 45.6, on Monday 45.4. Today has moderated further after 34.1 on Wednesday, to 31.4 C.

    I don't dispute that it was scorching hot there, just the assumption that my driving a gas-powered car is actually related to this fact in any more than a minor, incidental way. And I don't think anyone here can disprove my skeptical assessment, no matter how forcefully you state your opinion.

    An opinion is not a fact.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,956 ✭✭✭WesternZulu


    I think when the scientific community can point to man made emissions as contributing to explicit increases in temperature then your scepticism is just wrong.

    A 1C localised increase in temperature due to climate change on a particular day in Sicily isn’t a problem worth worrying about. That discussion is definitely meaningless.

    But then again that’s not the issue…we’re talking global averages and the potential they have for completely altering global weather patterns.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    But what will the collapse of the AMOC do to Irelands weather?

    Like are we in for a few decades of cold weather or what- seen as we are further north than Calgary Canada which experiences average temps of -11 C in winter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Humans thinking that we can fix the climate is completely ridiculous tbh.

    The planet will fix the climate itself.

    It may put make us endangered in the process but the planet has its own Checks and balances.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,464 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Agreed. Don't add more humans, that's just cruel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    I don’t agree.

    This thing is rolling- just prepare for what’s coming.

    It’d be nice to have a government that is making plans for worst case scenarios instead of taxing the bejaysus out of us but there ya go.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,441 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    this 'you can't prove it' argument again.

    no, we don't have a second earth to act as a control. so that renders the discussion meaningless? that it's just a coincidence that something that was predicted from theory has started happening broadly along that theory, but we should ignore it till we get 'proof' we're not going to get?

    and your 48C vs 49C analogy misses the point to the extent that i wonder if you're deliberately doing it. part of the predictions of a warming planet is more frequent extreme weather events, not that we'll see a nice smooth constant 1C or 2C difference from what it otherwise would have been.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Fine- but how do we prepare for the inevitable?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,322 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    What exactly has started to happen broadly along what theory exactly?

    Point to one thing that has happened that hasn't happened before? Spain hot in summer? Ireland wet in summer?

    Christ break the emergency glass, things have turned upside down worldwide.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,441 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i wish i had the answer to that. and whether it's inevitable. the pessimist in me says it is.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So how do we plan if we don’t know what’s gonna happen?



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