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Dublin Airport Bus Service Changes & Discussion

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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,529 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Someone in National Express HQ isn't going to be allowed near the Dublin Express social media accounts ever again I imagine!



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    New Killarney to Dublin Airport service:

    https://www.flightlink.ie/



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,529 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    NIR staff used to have to correct people to Waterside for that reason. Though I doubt many if any ever told someone who'd said Londonderry that!

    Website used to accept either as input and use it for the rest of the booking session.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Surprised to see they're not serving Tralee aswell



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Must say it's a quite a nice livery (not my photo, seen it on one of the Facebook groups)



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,529 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I initially, quickly, read that as Fightlink which is what the 0200 67N used to regularly be



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,308 ✭✭✭patrickbrophy18




  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,634 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭p_haugh




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  • Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭Fox Tail




  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,634 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    So the first Aircoach NI based Tourismo has been spotted in the wild, but only operate private hires thus far.

    Also this morning an NI registered Panther was spotted doing private hire work from Derry, all whilst this was happening Dublin based vehicles have been once again filling in on the 705X and Aircoach also then not having another drivers for the 700 resulting in cancellations as per usual.



  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭halfpastneverr


    Anyone done the Dublin-Belfast Dublin Express journey yet? I've to head up to Belfast next week and it's half the price of the train which I'd normally get so giving it a go.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    My friends visited Dublin a few weeks ago and then travelled to Belfast on a Dublin Express. They were very pleased with the service. Bus was barely half full on a Sunday morning.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    So over the weekend I got the chance to take the new Airocach Mercedes Tourismo's down to Cork and the new GoBus Volvo 9900 back up, so here is a review of both.

    First of all let me say that the Aircoach driver couldn't have been nicer, friendly, helpful, helped people with their luggage and seats. Top marks there.

    Overall the new Mercs are fairly poor experience. Legroom between seats is fairly bad. Not quiet as bad as those BE Expressway coaches, but very poor for an intercity coach operator. I'm not a tall person, but lots of folks around me looked very uncomfortable. The guy sitting next to me had to spread his legs eagle to fit, lots of people had their legs pressing up against the seat in front of them and many had to put their legs out sideways! Not good at all.

    The one saving grace is that you could pull the aisle side seats out into the aisle to give you a bit more space, handy for me with the chap next to me needing to spread his legs out. It is a nice feature, I'd like to see it on other coaches, even if they have more legroom.

    Clearly the legroom is an issue, as at the start of the journey, the driver was explaing and helping people pull out their seats!

    The seats are poor, no tray table, so everyone was trying to hold their phone/tablet in their hand for 3 hours uncomfortably watching a movie. No back of the seat netting to hold things. No hand holds on the seat, just a jacket hook. USB chargers overhead which is a pain to use and no plug sockets.

    Also I'm not sure if it was me, but the seats are sort of uncomfortable, at least after 3 hours.

    Toilet down the stairs, same as most other companies, but a downgrade from the Panthers.

    The coach had two sunroofs, which made the interior much brighter and lighter feeling, nice.

    Overall the experience felt very cheap. It felt like flying Ryanair, but with even less legroom and more uncomfortable seats!

    By comparison the GoBus Volvo 9900 is amazing. Plenty of legroom, I didn't see anyone struggling for space. Tray table, netting, two big hand holds on the back of the seat. USB port in the back of the seat. Two full power plugs next to the window seats. Seats fell much more comfortable. No problem after 3 hours of travel.

    BTW If GoBus or others are looking for ideas for improvements, it would be nice to also put those phone/table holders on the back of the head rest like London Bus and some other companies have started doing. Handy for travelling for 3 hours. And move the USB charging port up above the tray table. Also the pull out aisle seat. Small things, but would be nice to see in future.

    Also I don't know if it is my imagination, but the Volvo felt bigger, longer and possibly much taller then the Merc's. There seemed to be oceans of headroom.

    While in Cork waiting for the GoBus, an Aircoach Merc also past. The GoBus Volvo looks vastly better outside then the Merc. First of all the GoBus livery looks amazing, lovely and bright, Aircoach is boring and dull. But also the Volvo looks so much bigger and more impressive. I guess being triaxles it is longer, but I could be wrong, but it also looks taller. The Volvo looks much more impressive on the street.

    Finally what is this nonsense with Airocach charging an extra €2.50 per ticket for the ability to change the time and date of your ticket! GoBus do this for free. This makes Aircoach a lot more expensive then GoBus, for a much more inferior experience.

    I get the impression that management at Aircoach think they are Micheal O'Leary and trying to poorly replicate the Ryanair model in a very different competitive market!

    In summary, Aircoach seem to be making lots of bad decisions. I won't be using them again, I'll happily stick to GoBus to Cork.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    I'd say it's more to do with First not taking the Irish market very seriously and wanting to penny pinch on vehicles something common to First Group across the UK as opposed to trying to copy a particular business model.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,634 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    What you say does not surprise me about the Aircoach Tourismos, this is excactly what I though they would be like.

    The Tourismo is an excellent coach, however the spec that Aircoach have gone doesn't do it justice. They have literally gone for the basic choices everywhere in terms of the shortest length, poor USB placements, no curtains, the cheapest seat, the highest density, and little in the way of accessories on the seat. This combined with having a full wheelchair lift at the front of the coach (in isolation a good thing, but it just makes an already high density coach more high density as it takes up more room) means that the passenger onboard experience simply isn't good enough compared to what it should be.

    There are now five base models of the Tourismo avaliable in the UK and Ireland, the entry level Tourismo Access, Tourismo,, Tourismo M, Tourismo M/2 and Tourismo L, and the Aircoach ones are likely to be at best the second but may even be the first. They are definately not the last three as they are too short and lack some of the obvious features that those coaches have. As you get later in the series they get bigger and longer and that is probably why you noticed the 9900 be such a big size, I believe it is somewhere close to the Tourismo L in size. The number of seats Aircoach put in is the highest Mercedes say they can physically put in a coach with a toilet.

    In relation to the business model, unfortunatley this is an active choice that has been made. I've listened to a podcast with the outgoing MD a while back and she said then and in other media apperances and intervies that they were transitioning Aircoach away from 'Travel in Luxury and all that' to a hybrid operator that was focused on value add and good service at a great price. Essentially an admission that they have abandoned all kind of brand standards and decided to go down the cheapest possible route. I guess that is what happens when you bring several key appointments in from the UK industry more used to the bus industry who don't have the commercial and operational knowledge of the Irish market. It's been clear for some time that Aircoach have been treating Aircoach more like a UK Operating company and tried t orun it like one rather than address the specific needs.

    I have to say that whilst the Dervla McKay era at Aircoach has brought some much needed focus on embracing and exploting modern technology, customer contact improvements and a vast improvement in marketing and online presence, along with some great work in the community and other groups, you can't overlook that the choice of vehicles and the commercial decisions made over the last few years have been poor for the most part and leave Aircoach vulnerable on all of the key corridors such as the 700, 704 and 705. The rebrand is also poor. The logo for me is nothing. Why couldn't they go and get Ray Stenning of Best Impressions to design something for them? His designs always pack a punch. Even the arrow on the Aircoach logo means nothing because it points in wrong place!

    The other thing is are we sure that this is First penny pinching or bad local management? I honestly don't know, but go and have a look at the vehicles that they ordered for Railair. Scania coaches with good amount of legroom and tables and a much higher specification than we are seeing on AIrcoach. Also look at Stansted Airlink, yes, it's a double decker bus but to extremely high specification and shows what can be done with a bit of effort. All of them with well designed liveries, good internal colour schemes and some TLC gone into the seating area as well.

    https://itthub.net/newsroom/1-9m-investment-for-first-essexs-airlink-sets-high-standards/ (Stansted Airlink)

    https://busandtrainuser.com/2019/01/24/railair-youre-there/ (Railair)



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    A few other bits I forgot. GoBus stops in Dublin City have now moved over to the Citylink stops on Crampton Quay, next to the Citylink ticket office, handy for them, I assume there are staff there to help passengers load, etc. The drop off stop in Dublin has also changed to the other side of O'Connell Street.

    I haven't been in the ticket office, but I assume handy for passengers, in particular tourists, given it is next too Temple Bar now and maybe you could step out of the rain there. There is also a Starbucks and some other handy shops for sandwiches, etc. next to it. The Aircoach stop is close by too, just 20m's down the road.

    In Cork, Aircoach and Gobus share the same stop for both pickup and drop off. Drivers from both companies looked to share this space well.

    I think the 9900 might be the longest model, 13.9m, I was reading that when they launched in the UK/Irish market, they have launched only the longest triaxle, that the shorter 13.2m tri-axle will come later. Also yes it looks to be 20cm taller then the Tourismo. So 12.3m versus 13.9m and taller, no wonder the Gobus has far more space and looks impressive on the road.

    I think the GoBus new livery is the nicest livery of any coach company in Ireland now. It is so colourful and bright, it really stands out on the road and looks impressive. Aircoach, reminds me too much of Ryanair and is just dull and boring. Citylink is bright, but I never was too mad about it, it reminds me too much of yellow pack and cheapness, which isn't fair to them given the quality of their coaches. The Eireagle colours look better, though a bit boring. I know they probably won't do it, but if I was Citylink, I'd use the GoBus scheme for the Citylink ones too!

    When I went to book the tickets the night before, the GoBus service around the time I wanted to go, 30 minutes before and after the Aircoach I took, were already fully booked out! While the Aircoach services all seemed to still have space. Noww the Aircoach did end up full the next day, but perhaps an indication more people are now using GoBus then Aircoach!

    BTW One area Aircoach have GoBus beat, is that they have a more extensive schedule, more departures, etc.

    "intervies that they were transitioning Aircoach away from 'Travel in Luxury and all that' to a hybrid operator that was focused on value add and good service at a great price."

    But that is the mad thing, it isn't a great price! It is now more expensive then GoBus, with a worse Coach! And I haven't been on Dublin Express, but seemingly the same to Belfast. I'd say fair enough if they were charging just €15 return to Cork, but they are charging €25 + €2.50, more then GoBus and more then when they had actually good coaches. They seem to be charging a premium price for a cheap product.

    It would be like Ryanair charging more then Aer Lingus, doesn't really make sense.

    Sure in an ideal world for them, they would have a monopoly and could charge a premium price for a cheap product, nice margin. But they don't have a monopoly, they face strong competition with a better product for the same or cheaper price! That isn't going to work. They will have to decide to actually be cheaper or get better coaches to compete. It feels like they are shooting themselves in the foot!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    I suppose the last advantage Aircoach have is they've been around longer and people are more familiar with them than GoBus/Citylink at least on the Cork route same for the Belfast route. But anyone travelling regularly is more likely to use GoBus unless the times suit better for Aircoach.

    I'm probably alone here but I don't think the new logo is bad it's striking on the side of the coaches meaning people will take notice whereas the old logo was getting dated looking. The logo is probably the least of Aircoach's issues at the moment mind you.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    “I suppose the last advantage Aircoach have is they've been around longer and people are more familiar with them than GoBus/Citylink at least on the Cork route same for the Belfast route. But anyone travelling regularly is more likely to use GoBus unless the times suit better for Aircoach.”

    Yep, that is my thinking too, they have first mover advantage. Though over time I can see them gradually losing passengers to GoBus/DX as people try them and realise they are better/cheaper.

    As you say, I only take Aircoach now because GoBus is booked out or wrong time.

    Yep, the livery probably isn’t that big of a deal, the DX one is pretty boring too. Just that the GoBus one is so impressive, good job on that designer.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,634 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    BK - I completely agree with you that the positioning of the Aircoach brand and the commercial decisions in terms of pricing have been odd in terms of the product they are offering but that comes back to what I've seen saying for a long while now, essentially that the commercial management of the business has been awful over recent times.

    In relation to the livery, nope, it's not awful but at the same time, they could have done an awful lot better than the one that they got, it doesn't really look much better than the old one and ifi they went down the Best Impressions route like every other First airport operation, they's have ended up with something much better. For example, do you know that the colour blocks on the A on the AIrcoach logo are supposed to signify 24 hour service? Nope, neither did I until someone told me. Did you know that the reason they kept the light blue was because people told them that they should because it's associated with them? Why would they need people to tell them the obvious?

    The Aircoach situation with the 700 has been going on for so long now that I don't see how it can carry on that way. If First want to really challenge NX on the 700 then there's a rather obvious way to overcome it by a substantial change to the 700 operation without needing to find extra drivers but also increasing capacity. whilst reducing operational costs and also increasing the chances of redeploying vehicles later, I'm not going to spell it out to be obvious, but if First want to be this value operator rather than premium now, they can adjust the name slightly and create something that sits between the 16/41 and the premium offerings.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,634 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Just saw that Aircoach have put a social media post touting how 'luxurious' and 'spacious' their new coaches are

    GoAircoach (@goaircoach) | TikTok

    I'll let you judge for yourself if you think they are 'spacious' or not, I mean the design of the coach itself and the colours that are used and the flooring are nice, but the seats are really as basic as you get on the Tourismos and the legroom as shown above is simply not good enough for 3-5 hour journeys especially.

    Also the USB ports being so high when there is no table to rest your device on is about as stupid as it gets. Also cannot be good for the USB port of your device or to hold a solid connection in it, when you have the cable going up.

    All in all, the video shows the same poor design choices that we've discussed to death here.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,634 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    The new Aircoach vehicles enter service on the 705x to Belfast and Derry tomorrow.

    Style over substance still remains my view.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    New Citylink Dublin Airport to Castlebar route 721 starting on the 25th September



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    "Citylink/GoBus has announced that the new service will operate from Castlebar, Co Mayo, stopping in Claremorris, Tuam and Athlone before heading non-stop to Dublin city and Dublin Airport."

    https://www.galwaybeo.ie/news/galway-news/dublin-airports-new-route-great-8700490

    Sounds like they want to compete with the Aircoach service at Athlone.

    BTW I'm curios to see if they use the Citylink or GoBus branding and livery, be interesting to see where they might be going branding wise.

    I think the new GoBus livery is fantastic, much nicer then the Citylink one (yes I know, tiny detail).



  • Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭belfast stephen


    3 of the 4 Merc coach has entered serivce on the 705x the 4 being used on Type Training



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,634 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Interestingly in terms of the Aircoach fleet, the Dublin based Mercs are on the 700 today and the 704x is today exclusively Panthers.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Maybe they are realising that they aren’t good enough for intercity.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,634 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    They're still on the 705X, but this is the fourth day in a row none have appeared on the 704X and continue to appear on the 700.

    In other news, First are launching the Aircoach brand in the UK in just over a weeks time, for a service between Leicester and Birmingham Airport, this will be using ex Airporter Sprinter Minicoaches. They'll use the same logo as Aircoach here.

    Also more info on the CityLink/GoBus Castlebar service is here:

    https://www.citylink.ie/useful-info/new-route-announcement



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Seen that. The Stansted to Southend x30 service used to be branded Aircoach but used different branding than here now uses Enviro 400MMCs and is branded Airlink.



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