Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

All very well till your audited ….small one offs I’d get over giving cash but if work any way half regular better register properly and put it thru books the proper way 2 lads here during spring and regular relief Milker all thru books all legit and all happy …..

It's all about supply and demand. If a lad wants 20+ euro an hour net to milk cows outside his normal job there is a couple of way to pay him. Pay 40-50 though the books or pay him 20 an hour cash.

I have had this debate with my in-laws over the cost of a plumber to fix a leak or replace a tap. As I pointed out the time on site is only part of the consideration as he has to get to the next job and also collect equipment and pay for tools

I do not like paying cash either. But I understand I have to pay a premium for to put some jobs through the books.

I make the decision as to which makes the most sense. Mostly it's to put it through the books but I understand about having to sometimes I have to pay a premium

Like I said have family and friends building, without exception the labour content of the builds is almost entirely cash. All of them would be getting self build mortgages, a rated homes fully certified by engineers, who by the way are looking for cash aswell, architects cash.. how revenue are letting it go is beyond me it's absolutely rife with one off house builds..like gtm says they can't get cash off the big sites

Have you got invoices etc of the lads doing the work with their registered vat number etc and cash paid accounted for and wrote on invoice, if your using mortgage money drawn down their probably is zero issue, but if trying to expense it to farm accounts without the above your accountant is horsing

Had the same experience here with tradesmen. Gave me two prices. If I have to pay tax your paying it they said.

With trades people it's a double whammy add 13.5% vat into the equation

For a lot of handy men that the risk as well. There fear is they end up vat registered.

For lads doing a few milking of they were cute they would register as a sole trader write off the part of the phone and car costs, charge a bit extra an hour self access and work the system.

Biggest issue issue is many are not too computer savvy

Revenue play waiting game. There is no point in catching a lad for 3-5k or even a bit more it would seldom cover a revenue audit costs.

They normally target a sector and hit it hard so the word gets out. An electrician who got audited told me they looked for all his electrical compliance certificates and a payment for them all. It would be similar with solicitors and engineers.

The real sting is if you not vat registered and are over the vat registeration limits

If this dairy exit scheme happens I reckon there will be serious interest ….im farming since I was a young lad ….in my own right since 2010 and the changes even since 2010 are huge ….the changes happening now and what’s proposed will be bigger again and will drastically change the landscape for anyone milking cows expansion as we’ve become accustomed to since quota abolition won’t be possible and a lot of heavily borrowed new entrants especially are in for very rocky ride

A mechanic from Wicklow happened to be in the yard here recently.

He sold haylage delivered locally for €55. What he's doing for the last number of years and he said there's more farmers around going the route. Is buy a few cattle when grass comes in Spring. Make silage or haylage in summer and sell. Then sell the cattle in the autumn. He has no cattle for the winter. So no work. Solves lots on nitrates too.

If a farmer or stud owner bought 250 bales off him that's €13,750.

You'd be cracked giving that amount of money for 250 bales. But you'd be cracked not to be selling 250 bales if you got that money.

There's lots looking at easier options.

Just supposing I get in a few young lads in college to milk at weekends, holidays etc. and pay by bank transfer, do they have to go on my books or is there on onus on them to look after their own tax? Is there some exempt threshold or anything to cover occasional workers like this?

Glanbia cenus out this week, asking would you be interested in the dairy reduction or exit scheme

how many cows you would reduce by etc

My vets 5 kids all got north of 600 points in the leaving cert. 1 doctor, 1 solicitor, 1 dentist and 2 actuaries. None even contemplated being a vet.

Where do they spend all the cash? Whatever about a few grand here or there, or working around the edges with expenses to reduce tax. But large amounts of cash aren't very useful unless building a house.

There is a lot of older dairy men with no family interested in milking cow’s going forward and labour hard to get, one neighbour has two sons and a daughter and the only one interested is a 16 year old grandson who helps at the weekend. The day always comes on dairy farms where lads get fed up milking, another neighbour is giving up doing the milking at drying off and he is 74 years old the son does all the other work and hates milking and looking for a milker for next spring and if doesn’t find one he say he will get out. Dairy is a 7 day job and new entrants are finding this hard to get relief milkers.

Agree what your saying about easier money, the guy that doesn’t like milking is talking about contract rearing or going into incalf heifer job of buying calves and bringing then to point, as for the pigs expecting lads to work for nothing they are everywhere, and the days of treating lads like dirt is gone, back in the day of the old farm apprentice that was some hardship if you drew one the important dairy farms you were a slave and turned so many lad’s away from farming. Like the lads complaining about relief milkers looking for too much money, what would they want for to go and do milking for someone else, milked cows for a good number of years outside the day job in all types of parlours and had lads ask why won’t you milk for me and the quick answer always was would you milk for you in your parlour end of conversation.