BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

p_haugh · 21-07-2023 6:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880912#Comment_120880912

I slcan spot that it has the new Operator info in the timetable section as with the timetables in Carlow!

tnegun · 22-07-2023 8:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120872569#Comment_120872569

I've used the W61 a few times now and the most I've ever seen on it were about 15 passengers not bad considering the complete failure to inform the public of the route. All services depart 4/5 mins late from Moyglare I guess to remove some of the waiting enroute but reliability seems good for now but lets see what impact the September/October traffic brings.

bk · 22-07-2023 10:41am

I feel you need to give a new route at least one year, maybe even two years to properly bed in.

In the short term, folks need to become aware of its existence and usually over a period of a few weeks you will see a pick up of usage as they do. But then there are other people who if they see the new route is going to be there long term, might make major life changes based on the certainty that the route will continue long term. For instance change job for one that can be commuted to by the orbital route or perhaps sell a second car in the house as they can now use the second route.

Long term reliability of such routes is very important for people to trust public transport. It is the major advantage of rail/tram lines, they are relatively permanent and it allows people to build their lives around them.

I often see folks call for free fares, which would cost hundreds of millions extra year. I’d rather see a fraction of that sort of money put into keeping important orbital routes like these going.

Obviously routes like these are never going to busy as something like the 16 or 39a in the morning, so they will need more PSO subsidy, but probably less subsidy then many PSO routes around the rest of the country.

While these routes will never be as busy as a core route, they are vital to building out a true network, that allows people get around the city and not just into the city and long term allows people to start to thinking if they actually need that second car or can they now get around the city pretty handily without it.

Of course we can talk about single versus double deckers, frequencies, route tweaks, etc.

I think we will need to see how the whole network performs over the next 10 years or so more elements of BusConnects are rolled out, the infrastructure side, etc.

TranslatorPS · 22-07-2023 10:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880912#Comment_120880912

It feels like the timings were printed based on the very first versions that appeared with the botched M50 timings, the ones that have been in fact repaired ;)

While the simplified operator info is nice, I feel like they are making an absolute mess of the template: stop string strangely wide and taken away from its typical position above the timetable, three departures per row instead of the previously standard four... Faux-OCD activated I guess.

Hippodrome Song Owl · 22-07-2023 11:10am

The W61 is nice to have as an addition to the C4 between Maynooth and Celbridge, but it doesn't offer anything new for the majority of the route except for Moyglare. As it currently stands, it is seen as pretty pointless, particularly considering it runs within a few minutes of both the C4 and L59.

The W4 appears to be busy enough, and it's an option that is very welcome in Lucan among those aware of it - it has been very poorly advertised.

So far, both are running fairly well in terms of reliability, which is incredible considering the quite unbelievable level of cancellations on other local Go Ahead routes - the L51 and L52 are cancelled more often than they run. The W4 would be of great benefit to my mother, but first thing she wanted to know was if it was DB or GA - won't take a chance on it to get to Tallaght once she heard it's GA. She's sticking with C1 to Heuston and Luas, despite it being so much longer.

(Edited to replace W62 with W4 due to error)

LXFlyer · 22-07-2023 11:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120882295#Comment_120882295

Don’t you mean W4 rather than W62?

Hippodrome Song Owl · 22-07-2023 11:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120882359#Comment_120882359

Apologies, yes, the W4! I'll edit now for clarity. Thanks.

cgcsb · 22-07-2023 12:16pm

What's next then the S2? Any chance of a spine route? Hoping I live to see it finished.

LXFlyer · 24-07-2023 6:00pm

South Dublin CoCo have a consultation on the proposed changes on the approaches to Hazelhatch Bridge open now until 18 August 2023.

https://consult.sdublincoco.ie/en/consultation/proposed-works-hazelhatch-bridge-facilitate-bus-movements-part-bus-connects-dublin-network-redesign

trellheim · 27-07-2023 9:38am

(Dated 27/7/23)

Dear Community Forum Member,

This is a no-reply email address. Please feel free to email queries to cbc@busconnects.ie

We are emailing you to provide a status update in relation to the Core Bus Corridors specifically the Kimmage to City Centre Core Bus Corridor Scheme.

This week, the National Transport Authority (NTA) gave notice of its application under Section 51(2) of the Roads Act 1993 (as amended) to An Bord Pleanála for approval in relation to a proposed road development consisting of the construction of the Kimmage to City Centre Core Bus Corridor Scheme.

For information, a small number of changes have been made to this scheme following consideration of the submissions received during the third round of public consultation (at the end of 2020) and these are summarised below.

The proposed cycle route at Poddle Park and Mount Argus is revised.
Public Realm proposals at various private landing areas are revised.
Further rationalisation of bus stop locations, with some bus stops relocated or removed to achieve a better spacing between stops, while also ensuring that each stop is sited in the best location to serve surrounding neighbourhoods.
Landscaping updated throughout; and
Cycle facilities have been further optimised

A copy of the application documentation may be viewed and downloaded free of charge at www.kimmagescheme.ie . Please note all previous documents regarding BusConnects are still available on www.busconnects.ie

Submissions/observations on this scheme may be made in writing to the Board at An Bord Pleanála (Strategic Infrastructure Division), 64 Marlborough Street, Dublin 1, D01 V902 between Tuesday 1st August 2023 and Tuesday 26th September 2023.

Any submissions/observations must be accompanied by a fee of €50 and must be received by the Board not later than 5.30 p.m. on the 26th September 2023. This fee will not apply to certain prescribed bodies including those specified in Section 51(3)(b) of the Roads Act 1993 (as amended) or to landowners and others with a legal interest in land who are objecting to compulsory acquisition of land in which they have such an interest in a compulsory acquisition case.

Submissions/observations can also be made on the An Bord Pleanála website at the following address: https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/observations

It is our intention to submit the schemes on a phased basis with the next two schemes likely to be submitted in the order shown below:

Ringsend to City Centre CBC Scheme;
Bray to City Centre CBC Scheme.

As each scheme is submitted for approval to An Bord Pleanála, the process of public notifications in newspapers and online will be repeated.

Yours Sincerely,

BusConnects Team

cgcsb · 27-07-2023 10:51am

Had a quick look today, seems like the cycling part is largely abandoned in favour of on street parking and curiosly there's a long stretch of hatched central median instead of a proper width of cycle lane and no separation. As with the other corridors, all design manuals are ignored, multiple turning lanes for cars are provided at the expense of greater pedestrian space, even at city centre junctions.

I can't fathom why the NTA steadfastly rejects proper design in favour of greater car dominance, they even ignore their own published guidance. Anyway there's clearly no will on officialdom to tackle car dominance or provide usable sustainable transport infrastructure, but we'll still get whining about missed climate targets from our government in the media. They have the power and guidance to do what's required but they refuse and whinge afterwards.

VonLuck · 27-07-2023 11:29am

Just taking a quick look as well, what are they doing at the approach to the Kimmage Road Lower / Sundrive Road Junction? There's a huge area of (excessive) car parking in front of the shops which they are retaining and yet not providing any cycle lanes here? Boggles the mind.

trellheim · 27-07-2023 11:52am

the award for most likely to be ignored bus gates are in, there at the southwestern corner of the harolds x green, in both directions . Thats a primary route into town, not a side road or rat run , with the only alternatives being through terenure or via sundrive/cork street

Also the proposed no right turn onto the canal from Harolds X is madness - there's no other way to turn right for some distance in either direction unless you rat run down estates in Crumlin

cgcsb · 27-07-2023 11:57am

I wonder now that we have legislation to underpin camera enforcement of the road traffic rules will it actually be used on these corridors or any of the existing bus gates?

Evil_g · 27-07-2023 7:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120902754#Comment_120902754

That's insane. And new parking paces across the street, resulting in a cycle path that just starts at Bedford Court? What is the point of any of this?

That area has such potential if they'd just get rid of those parking spaces and calm the traffic. I've been boycotting any business who displayed those ridiculous "Communities not corridors" signs (so all of them) for years now, for all the good it's done. I'm absolutely disgusted at this stage.

Evil_g · 27-07-2023 9:10pm

Double post

alentejo · 27-07-2023 11:27pm

Based on the Kimmage Rd busconnects design, i feel at this stage not to bother. The bus gate would appear to operate between 7 to 10 and 4 to 7.

Additional parking on this road will actually make cycling worse on this road.

Have been very skeptical about busconnects, however at this stage I am done. Appalling designs and a waist of money at this stage

LXFlyer · 28-07-2023 5:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120905889#Comment_120905889

I think that you have misread the plans regarding the bus gates. There are four bus gates proposed:

Three on the F-Spine Corridor:

1) Kimmage Road Lower at Ravensdale Park - 24 hours, 7 days per week

2) Kimmage Road Lower at the southern end of Harold's Cross Park - 24 hours, 7 days per week

3) Harold's Cross Road (western side of Harold's Cross Park) at northern end of Harold's Cross Park

Southbound 24 hours, 7 days per week;
Northbound 06:00-10:00, 7 days per week

One additional one at Kenilworth Square North westbound at Kenilworth Square west (24 hours, 7 days per week)

This is due to the proposals now allowing southbound traffic on Harold's Cross Road turn right onto Kenilworth Park.

Pete_Cavan · 28-07-2023 6:35am

Is there a possibility that ABP could reject BusConnects planning applications which don't comply with design guidance in relation to cycle lanes? I mean, could we potentially have multiple, or even all, applications sent back for redesign of particular elements, or even rejected outright?

It would actually be kind of funny if that happened. I guess we'd get a "heads up" from one of the earlier applications and then the NTA would have a decision to make as to whether it then preemptively withdraws the subsequent applications.

cgcsb · 28-07-2023 8:42am

Also do we not have multiple public consultations for a reason? It seems they've taken the publics comments on boars and then completely scrapped the scheme and applied for increased parking and a reduced time bus gate.

alentejo · 28-07-2023 9:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906223#Comment_120906223

Just looking at the plans, there appears to be a sign indicating a limited bus gate.

So much documentation, its in the" Kimmage-CBC-Scheme-PDR-App-B8-Signs-Markings" section.

LXFlyer · 28-07-2023 10:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906572#Comment_120906572

Brilliant!

In the General arrangement drawings on the EIS (which to me should be the bible!) the sign is shown as the bus gate operating 24/7.

How are people supposed to assess this properly with contradictory information?

What Volume / Chapter / Appendix is the map you have posted above in?

And which tab Is it on?

alentejo · 28-07-2023 11:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906917#Comment_120906917

Cant post the link due to firewall issues in work. You will find it under the General arrangement Drawings on the main https://kimmagescheme.ie/ page

LXFlyer · 28-07-2023 11:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120907317#Comment_120907317

Ok the General Arrangement Drawings in Volume 1 - Non-Technical Summary (which is what I was using) and those in Volume 3 - Chapter 4 - 02 are different.

Marvellous!

lateconnection · 30-07-2023 12:00pm

So is the 24th September launch for the S2, S4, S6 and L25 still likely?

These services are all long overdue, they'll be far more frequent and take far more direct routes than their predecessors.

ITV2 · 30-07-2023 1:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120915149#Comment_120915149

from what I hear in Dbk garage the L25 and the 74 are due to start on that date. as the S2 is now gone to Cony Road, no news on that.

LXFlyer · 30-07-2023 2:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120915504#Comment_120915504

They all have to start on the same date - otherwise some people will not have a bus service, given that they are all partially replacing existing routes.

madnessnmayhem · 01-08-2023 4:48pm

Seen this on a radio website

[The new route will serve the likes of Áras an Uachtaráin, Dublin Zoo and more.

Last year, Dublin Bus had to put their plans to introduce a bus route through the historic park on hold due to gates around the area being too narrow to fit buses through.

Now, the route is finally being launched and the first service is expected to take place at the end of this month.

The route will be between Parkgate Street and the Phoenix Park Visitor Centre and it will also serve Chesterfield Avenue.

More details including bus timetables will be available closer to the end of August.]

Anyone what route that may be?

Daith · 01-08-2023 6:29pm

There was plans to have a bus route from Broombridge to Heuston but the Cabra gates are too narrow?

So this is a cutdown version only going from Parkgate to the Park. Better than nothing but a pity a proper route to link Broombridge and Heuston won't happen

LXFlyer · 01-08-2023 6:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120927070#Comment_120927070

The N2 will still Broombridge and Heuston but will now presumably take the original planned route via Blackhorse Avenue.

BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

Comments