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Are the banks robbing savers?

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  • 28-07-2023 10:52am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭


    The Times today said that the Central Bank of Ireland assumes banks pwould pass only 60% of the ECB's interest rate hikes onto borrowers. This raises three questions.

    1) Why are they not passing on 100% of the increase to borrowers?

    2) Why are they not passing on 100% of the increase to savers?

    3) Are the banks robbing savers to shield borrowers.

    If so, what should savers do about that?



«134

Answers

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub



    1) Why are they not passing on 100% of the increase to borrowers? Probably because they can bury the increase in some of their profit

    2) Why are they not passing on 100% of the increase to savers? Same as above, robbing peter to pay paul. Don't worry the Bank will come out on top

    3) Are the banks robbing savers to shield borrowers. Long term issue in Ireland, regulations etc are made to make it nearly impossible to throw out non payers and if they do take years. The rest of us have to pay for them



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭greencap


    Time to get my accounts out of this country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,141 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    I found a UK savers accounts at 6% interest, absolutely fantastic returns.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    1) Why are they not passing on 100% of the increase to borrowers? It could put a lot of people over the edge in regard to their mortgage payments. This could lead to people defaulting on their mortgage and then the subsequent protracted process of eviction or restructuring of loans. If there ends up being a lot of evictions, that will flood the housing market and will devalue the property they have repossessed. It's also worth remembering that the cost of living has increased massively, and I assume they are trying to mitigate the risk of bad debts by not passing on 100% of the rate increases. The bank is also intrinsically tied to the economy... if people have no money to spend, the economy will tank and we'll be back to the late noughties again.

    2) Why are they not passing on 100% of the increase to savers? Savings cost a bank money and the more that is saved with the bank, the more liquidity is needed, and they also need to ensure they have enough reserves. Banks make their money through interest from loans predominately, so their interest (no pun intended) is to side with their borrowers as they pay the bills and they really don't want them defaulting. It's also worth noting that if the ECB decided to start reversing the hikes, the banks could end up at a point like last year where savings were costing them money - hence the savings caps and so forth - It's all a delicate balancing act.

    3) Are the banks robbing savers to shield borrowers. No, they are running a business and that means you have to prioritise your customers into those who make you money, those who don't make you money, and those who cost you money. Running a bank is expensive and it's highly regulated so they need to make sure they operate within the parameters that are required whilst ensuring they have enough profits to mitigate exposure to risk, because there is a lot of risk, especially in times like this.

    Before people start jumping to conclusions, I don't work for a bank, nor do I have any interest or shares in any banks. I'm just pointing out that there is a lot more to it. We all know what happened when the last Irish bank failed, and we really don't need to see that again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,097 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Yep, for savers to take their money out and put it elsewhere. That's the only thing they will understand.

    As I understand it, the hoors are using citizens savings to get a good return from the ECB and leaving savers with paltry returns.

    All it needs is for many savers to say thank you, can I have my money back please and now. That'll learn them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    Share the wealth?

    I didn't realise we could open a sharing account in UK anymore



  • Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭cal naughton


    The Bank's would be delighted with the scenario you have outlined to take it out. They have far too much deposits on their books with the closing of kbc and Ulster



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭greencap




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭dasdog


    BOI, AIB and PTSB have a monopoly on the Irish Market. There is no competition so they can do effectively do what they like. It's that simple.

    I work in the tech side of a Digital Bank providing services to the UK market and get to see a lot of what goes on behind the scenes. It's actually fascinating but customer trust, security and offering quality services are fundamental. They have zero interest in coming to Ireland. It's like we are fed gruel while the UK are out fine dining. Drives me nuts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    Exactly. I find it odd that people with long-term savings are leaving them in banks and in many cases, effectively losing money. There are some investment funds that are offering good returns which would be a far better alternative.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,097 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Well let's hope it's put to the test so, what's the last thing a bank wants - a run on deposits.



  • Registered Users Posts: 78,375 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    But at the risk of variations in exchange rate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,141 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    True, but they have been fairly static despite the Brexit nonsense.

    It would be worth it, if the only alternative was saving with an Irish bank. Decisions decisions...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    UK is not better than Ireland. A lot of them came over here looking to make a quick buck and went scurrying back to the UK when they figured out the regulations are different over here. Couldn't kick people out of houses for non payment is and always was the big one.

    The Irish banks and the UK banks are in constant contact with each other. If you are working for someone providing services you would be aware of that. They are all up to the same stuff over in the UK as here. The banks trying to close down branches etc etc. sound familiar?

    Trying to paint the UK banking system as "fine dining" 😂

    If Ireland changed it regulations tomorrow morning every one of those banks would be sitting in Ireland now, but the public would go nuts when mass evictions would happen to non paying mortgage customers etc

    FYI AIB and BOI have banking interests in the UK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭dasdog


    The Irish market is insignificant. There is a general rule of thumb. If you are in the top five of the top five most populous European countries you will make a profit. Ireland, which went from light touch almost zero regulation to over regulation, is not worth the effort. Factor in the fact the state will back up the pillars at any cost and we have no competition.

    If you don't pay your debt you should face the consequences not shout what about the famine. The UK consumers and the vast majority of European countries have choice. We don't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Depends on the exchange rate and where it’s going though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    No we didn't go from no regulation to over regulations. The lack of ability to kick someone out of their home if not paying has been in place for years

    The crash didn't change that, multiple reasons for the crash.

    We had choice, as I said most of the UK banks and some European have come in, didn't like it because they can't make enough profit and run home. It was all down to profit. The European or UK banking is not any better than Ireland, you might have a few more names but they are all looking to screw every penny out of customers.

    If we want choice then we need to change the regulations for the banks to kick out bad mortgages etc. The population doesn't want that....

    Our best option is a Public Bank but again not enough pressure from the Irish population for that on government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭dasdog


    @ZookeeperDub I note you edited your post to include AIB/BOI operating in the UK.

    Look at who came last in a 2023 survey




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    and?

    Look at who is above them. :-)

    This is the fine dining banking is in the UK?



  • Registered Users Posts: 889 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    Banks are dying people, it will take a good few more years but then we will have decentralised finance fully functional and user friendly, no longer will we be at the mercy of the current financial monopolies, a mass transition to cryptocurrencies will occur within the next 3 years



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    Banks are not dying. They are losing market space to fintechs on current account etc but fintechs are not really shaking up the mortgage market etc

    Cryptocurrencies are not going to take over. 3 years ago everyone was told crypto would take over, 3 years later we are still been told.

    2022 when all those firms and currencies went belly up was the end of crypto seen as the future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭Fox Tail


    I wouldnt go nuts if non paying customers were kicked out of their house and into social housing.

    Oh wait....we dont have any available social housing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭Fox Tail


    Fintechs just need a better grasp on the mortgage market to really derail the high street banks.

    Doesnt Ireland have the 2nd highest number of Revolut accounts in Europe? despite having only 5 million population.

    I doubt many people under the age of 30 in ireland have a high street bank account.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    in reality they do, majority if not all, a lot will have for saving etc wages get paid in and go directly out to revolut

    Thry also need for a mortgage which the fintechs will never take on because the overhead is too much

    Revokut has lots of customer but you still need a high street bank account



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    Not really the point is it? If people are non paying they should be thrown out, then the banks have no excuse in regards the charges etc they make on mortgages

    Like the rental ban which was supposed to make thousand and thousands homeless, never happened, changing to allow lenders to remove non paying tenants is not going to have a huge flux in ireland

    The houses freed up can be sold and increase supply etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭Fox Tail


    I agree that we should remove non payers and reduce rates for payers as a repercussion.

    But I dont see the state doing it when they know they have to house the non payers somewhere.

    And they have nowhere.

    Things wont change until we have a surplus of housing.

    Which wont happen for decades.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    Its a big circle, if someone is removed as non paying that free's up a house to be sold. Then it will get people moved into the house and the non paying can take up a potential rental

    We are building loads of houses and stopping changes in regulations for something that might happen is not the answer, as we seen with the eviction ban it might never happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭Fox Tail


    The someone that may move into the house is already housed.

    The govt are happy enough for workers to house share and not complain, or 30 somethings to live at home with their parents and not complain, but they dont want people that cant or wont houseshare being kicked out, displaced and ending up on the streets.

    in other words, the status quo is better than the shake up.

    I am not saying that is right by the way.

    But it is the way the Govt look at it.

    Path of least resistance and all that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭rogber


    This is why smart people invest their money in people like Sam Bankman Fried



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    As I said, based on the recent eviction ban and all the gloom that was predicted and never happened

    More house in market is what we need, people sitting in houses for years not paying mortgage etc is not good for anyone



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