Doping megathread - I can't even think of a witty tagline

Yeah, I forgot about the bike change. That's another thing that went against him on the day. All ignoring of course the natural drop off in effort that must occur in the final km of a TT like that where a rider knows that he has nothing left to race for and the dejection must be overwhelming.

It's just a bit mad how far ahead of the rest of the field those two were.

Who said it was a bad performance? Let's just knock that on the head before everyone is dragged down a rabbit hole arguing a point that hasn't been raised.

But yet he was well ahead of third place!!!

There is something new out there in sport in general, performances are improving alot, I know nutrition, equipment and science has helped, but not by such a margin that others can't do it

But there was no other rider there besides Jonas who could hope to match Tadej on such a climby TT. If Remco/Geraint/Roglic were there we would have a better comparison.

There seems to be an absolute raft of new records being set by irish amateur athletes in recent weeks .Any ideas ?Genuinely curious .

some data analysis on the TT. Any views on this? 7.5 w/kg!!!!!!!!?

There is no generally accepted level; you don't know the mass accurately and are completely guessing the power.

Even Ross Tucker who isn't slow to talk about doping calls it guess work.

If we assume he's doping

1. What's he taking?

2. How is he beating testing regime?

I'm not defending him but without the power data and system mass it's guess work.

If athletes have a firm understanding of RPE it is probably a better metric as your FTP is static and does not take into account good days / bad days / fatigue etc.

You often see it with powerlifters and what weight they lift on a day to day basis is usually based on RPE as lifting say 80% of your max does not take into account any variabilities.

Jonas was obviously on a great day, if he was a slave to the numbers and backed off to 360 he would be leaving time out on the course.

was thinking about this too. not just TT performances, but general racing seems to be on another level recently. average speeds way up.

Is it the equipment (faster bikes and wheels)? plus riders all having access to better training tools and techniques (everyone coached, power meters, nutrition plans).

21 minutes used to win a 10 mile time trial. now its 18 mins. in fairness, the 21 minute wins are probably 20 years ago. the bikes, gear and positions are definitely way faster. And there's riders who focus specifically on time trials.

Road racing seems to be a couple of Km/hr faster in each category too though. Even club league stuff is off the chart. I know scratch groups averaging 45-48 km/hr regularly for an hours racing.

pretty much zero testing at local races, aside from championship events? I know of a couple of cases in recent times where lads have bought 'supplements' online, and have been tested at events and fallen foul. but is it more widespread?

or am I just getting slower in my old age and everyone else is staying the same speed??

What are average speeds like for 3hr races though? I think the increase in speed in the league races is easily explainable. In a nutshell, Zwift racing. People have gone nuts for Zwift. Aren't those races about an hour long. People can generally last an hour at v high intensity. They don't need to put in 4 and 5 hour rides on a Saturday and Sunday to get to a good level for an hour long race. I think take a huge percentage of those who perform well in a local league race and put them into a 130km race and they're gone out the back after an hour and a quarter

one example is a race from the opening weekend of the season. flatish circuit.

2016 a1/2 podium 40.9km/h (I appear to have been dropped that day! def wasn't me on the podium)

2017 a1/2 race - 40.4 km/h (my own average - pretty sure I finished in the bunch).

missing a few years then, because I didn't ride it or covid or the race wasn't held.

2023 a3 race. 40.9 km/h (looking at a team mate who was in the top 20 in a1/2, with a 43.3 km/h average!)

I recall pre-2015 as an a3 I would have been impressed with a 40 average. more likely the avg speed would have been in the late 30s.

granted, this race is around 2 hours, or a bit less for a3, so not anywhere near 3 hours. but its the trend I've felt for a few years now, def since racing re-started after covid. speeds up a couple of km/h in all categories

I'm not sure many would defend the testing as in any way infallible - we've all seen that it's not. The issue is more that the performance in question is so far off the curve that if it was doping, you'd expect to see some massive change in key biological parameters.

In fairness, how many riders in the peloton would be considered excellent time-trialists who could compete for a stage?

Pog and Jonas are excellent time trialists, but add in an uphill stage, and huge motivation and they were always going to be head and shoulders over everyone else, even Van Aart.

Ciccone went faster than vingegoord over the steepest section to take the KOM points