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Neighbours wall falling down and he just covered it with a fence

  • 27-07-2023 9:40pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 15 Eirexox


    Heya, so my neighbour is redoing their whole garden. The wall separating our houses belongs to them. On their side they had raised flowerbeds against the wall itself. There was builders in with a mini digger digging the land and pulling away the flowerbeds. In this process the digger has pushed blocks out of the wall into our side. Photos included. The wall is now extremely unstable and dangerous. Talking to our neighbour the other night he said the builders told him it needs to be replaced as it’s unstable etc and he agreed. However I had a lie in this morning , I get up go look out the window and to my shock the wall is still there, but they have now attached a fence on their side , thus hiding the wall from their view and leaving the dangerous falling down wall there at our side. Have I a leg to stand on can I tell him he needs to get the wall sorted? Thanks so much I’m advance.

    We are also redoing our garden so please ignore the state of it lol

    Also apologies I can’t turn the photos




«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 348 ✭✭Madd002


    It was probably cheaper than building a new wall. Looking closer he already had another fence up can see from blocks missing in close up pictures. You'll have to speak to him again about when he is going to remove the wall as its structurally unsafe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 266 ✭✭taylor3


    WTF that's bad form imo. Fair enough the wall is actually theres but it also acts as a boundary between you two and as a courtesy this should not have been left like that, especially saying nothing and you wake up to this shambles, it's very negligent on their behalf. I'd at least knock in and invite them into your back garden to fully assess the mess and ask them to clarify have they intentions to remedy this. As it stands (pardon the pun) this is very dangerous and poses a great risk, especially when windy stormy nights come in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,470 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I would press him on the need for it to be removed or that section repaired/replaced ASAP, but would take your own reasonable precautions on your side for now, keep the kids away from pulling blocks out etc or playing near it and such. IANAL but I'd say there must be something on the books about needing to keep your walls on your land up to code.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,435 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    It could be argued that block was removed on the OP's side. I cant see how a block could be dislodged but the timber post behind it is still intact. If that was knocked from the neighbours side then the post would have snapped.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Work out getting a new wall done and split the cost.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,523 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    am curious on what basis a wall dividing two properties belongs to only one owner; is it built fully within the land they own, or actually on the boundary?

    or in another way, are you leaving the maintenance of the boundary wall/fence entirely up to your neighbour to worry about?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Eirexox


    Luckily I have security camera footage that shows the blocks being dislodges from their side by the digger. I would post if possible but obviously multiple people are visible and can’t post them online. I mean the neighbour and the builders acknowledged it themselves im Just gobsmacked that they went and just put them fence over it like that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Eirexox


    Thanks for your reply, the wall is on their land and built by the previous owner. We had a fence about 4 inches in-front of it up until recently as we took it down to redo our garden.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,797 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Is there a height difference between the soil heights two properties? Can't tell properly from the photos, but I think I can see that his is higher?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,392 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    The cheapest and obvious thing thing that will actually look OK for you is to approach the builder, say you can see he knocked the wall, accidentally, and its is caught on your rear cameras and its not safe. Since the fence is up, you would be happy if they just took the blocks out and disposed of them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 771 ✭✭✭GSBellew


    Remove what is left of the wall, put up your fence, claim an extra few inches of garden for the price of a fence you were going to have to put up anyway, the cost of the few inches is disposing of the blocks, the peace of not having a dispute with the neighbour is priceless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭hesker


    OP can’t touch the wall as it doesn’t belong to him and isn’t on his property.

    Wall can’t be removed anyway probably because the fencing is anchored to it.

    OP don’t approach the builder as he doesn’t work for you.

    Talk to your neighbour and simply ask him what he intends to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭Havenowt


    I'd say that is what the neighbor is hoping for..



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,523 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    you could suggest to your neighbour that you hire a skip and split the cost. from a quick look, there's 18 x 18" blocks per course, say four courses. that's ~1 cubic metre if stacked efficiently. would comfortably fit in a mini skip (typically 1.5 cu m+) which would cost probably €150 or so.

    one of the main purposes of suggesting this is that you're saying to him the wall is fit for nothing except to be chucked in a skip.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Fairest compromise to be honest. Neighbour inherited that wall when they moved in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,738 ✭✭✭Naos


    Even with the overhang, is it still within your neighbours property?

    If so.. curious from a legal perspective why he would have to fix it if he doesn't want to.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,523 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    from a legal perspective, would the wall not be considered the boundary by now? is the wall not essentially an admission that that's where the two properties meet?

    from a legal perspective, i don't know how you could build a wall say 4 inches on your own side of the boundary and continue to claim possession of those four inches.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six




  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Eirexox


    Nope no height differences between our houses the ground is level.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Eirexox


    We had the fence up originally to hide the wall as it is an eyesore. It’s a danger the wall isn’t properly supported nor does it have propper foundations. It’s literally bellying and leaning.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Eirexox


    I agree I would have no problem going halves on a new wall or fence or whatever. He did not give that option nor approach us before going ahead with what he has done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Eirexox


    I mean it’s not fit for anything it’s literally falling down. I have no problem going halves to sort it out but he never approached us or consulted with us before going ahead with his fence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Eirexox


    That is true indefinitely do not want to have tension or anything. The fact that he’s been super friendly and we have cut their grass etc while they were on holiday, helped with plumbing issues etc etc and he didn’t have the common courtesy to approach us regarding his plan, after telling us he was taking down the wall and building a new one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,797 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    I'd presume that within the law you're entitled to some type of safety within your own property, but how this effectively works when the danger is a neighbouring property is unknown to me, but I did find this article which has a section called "boundary buildings and repair"

    As the wall is clearly leaning into your property and can only fall one way, I'd be thinking that you need to formalise the communication to the neighbour by stating the concern in a letter. I'd provide a timeframe to have the safety issue resolved and if they don't respond within that time, contact a solicitor to communicate it in a legalese way and proceed with the above. I'd be stating that you request a replacement wall in line with the existing building regulations, and you could state that you wish the replacement wall to be on the party line (therefore giving him back 4 inches of unusable garden 😉 ).



  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Eirexox


    Thanks a million for that. They are building a wall out the front of their property also (they not have a hedge there now) and will want to join onto our wall pillar so my hubby is saying she’s going to tell him he can’t join onto our pillar until the back wall is at least made stable lol



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ Julius Colossal Utopia


    Op.

    Call into your neighbour and ask him what exactly does he intend on doing with his wall that is collapsing into your garden.

    bring any of the blocks that are currently in your garden and hand them directly into his hands or leave them in his porch.

    Every week that passes then call in again asking for an update.

    Don't be stupid enough to pay for someone else's wall.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Surely you don’t think the neighbour should pay to build a wall for the Op?

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,797 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    If as per the information provided that if the neighbour wants to maintain the wall fully on their property and not a party wall, then yes, the neighbour should pay for it fully.

    (added missing "if")

    Post edited by 10-10-20 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    The neighbour doesn’t have to build a wall though. Make it safe sure, but not build a new wall.

    Op is redoing their garden. Surely the best option is approach neighbour and offer to split the cost.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Perhaps he's just going with the cheap/lazy option for now. Looks like he didn't even bother removing the old fence panels before putting the new ones up.

    You say he didn't present an option of going halves on the wall, but did you suggest it to him? Maybe he can't afford the full price of a wall, but wouldn't have a problem if the cost was split.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,523 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    the issue is now that the neighbour would appear to have paid for a fence to be installed, and probably will not warm to the idea of the fence being removed to facilitate the wall being taken down and the fence reinstated.

    so i don't know what options are open to the OP, the ship might have sailed on the obvious ones. calling in to the neighbour and saying you will slowly dismantle the wall as it falls apart and leave the blocks in his garden?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 588 ✭✭✭HazeDoll


    Isn't it entirely possible that the neighbour isn't fully aware of the state of the wall? I think it's possible he's not even aware that the new fence panels are just bodged in on top of the old ones. All this talk of confrontation, demands and ultimatums (ultimata?) seems a little extreme until the OP has established that the neighbour knows what is going on behind the new panels but has decided to be an arse about it.

    Good neighbours are priceless. I'm not suggesting we should tolerate bad behaviour from neighbours for the sake of an easy life but definitely give him a chance to fix things. Approach it as a conversation. "We need to decide what we're going to do about this wall. Do you want to drop in for a look and we'll see if we can come up with some ideas? Obviously we can't leave it as it is."



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,523 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    from the OP:

    "Talking to our neighbour the other night he said the builders told him it needs to be replaced as it’s unstable etc and he agreed."

    so he's been told, and agreed, the wall is unstable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Eirexox


    He’s fully aware of the state of the wall, two nights before the fence was erected my hubby was talking to him over the fence. The neighbour himself said the builder said the wall wasn’t stable, and joked how the wall is still standing. He told us that he had agreed with the builder to replace the wall and even asked if we thought that €2000 was a good price for that . Then all of a sudden the fence was erected, with no consultation or anything.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,523 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    however, to be fair - if you knew what state the wall was in before now, and you'd been planning on doing work on your garden, you should have approached the neighbour long before now and suggested going splits on putting up a new wall or fence.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Eirexox


    I have previously said we would have definitely gone halves to rebuild the wall, he didn’t give that option not consult before putting the fence up despite saying he was rebuilding the wall at the advice of the builder. We are not looking for anything just safety and common courtesy from our neighbour. We have done nothing but help them since they moved in my father being an electrician helped them out, hubby helped with plumbing etc. it’s the lack of decency to keep us informed, also the cheek to leave the wall so unstable literally you can move it with one hand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Eirexox


    It’s not

    The wall was perfectly stable prior to them hitting it with the digger. We have our own plans for our garden and the wall from our side will be blocked when we are done the problem is we don’t want their wall falling and damaging our construction. I mean in all fairness we are not asking for much.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,523 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    ah, i misunderstood. i thought it was already problematic.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ Julius Colossal Utopia


    The OP doesnt own the wall.. the neighbour built it which is collaping into the Ops garden



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,523 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    two things - the neighbour didn't build it, it was there when the neighbour moved in.

    and generally, the boundary fence or wall between two properties would often be seen as a shared responsibility.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    So why do you think the neighbour should pay to build a wall to suit the OP? All they need to do is make it safe.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,576 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Not necessarily shared responsibility. I've seen estates where it was written folio that right side rear fence was in in ownership of the property. I think that is usually done where fences with a back and a face are used so that each garden gets one good side and one back side to look at.

    If the previous owner of the neighbouring property built this wall, it should be assumed it was built just their side of the boundary so the op would own right up to the face of the wall but not the structure itself.

    The main responsibility of the neighbour here is the safety aspect. They cannot allow unsafe structure to fall into neighbour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Sounds like you didn't offer to split the cost of the wall. Were you hoping your neighbour would pay for it all themselves, so didn't say anything?

    Perhaps your neighbour was telling you how much it would cost in the hopes that you would offer to split the cost with them. You didn't say anything, so they went with the cheaper option of a new fence.

    Why can't you just build a shared wall together, rather than your own blocked wall on your side?



  • Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭lostboy75


    In fairness to the OP, the wall was 'fine' until the neighbours builder hit it with a digger. so regardless on splitting the cost or not, the wall is now a danger and this needs to be rectified.

    Being a good neighbour, a concept I fully agree with, added to the fact the OP talked about doing work with their garden, talk to them again, explain your not happy with the state of the wall, that it's dangerous. But explain your happy to cover some of the costs to rectify this, and discuss options, explain that adding the timber fence just hides the danger on their side, it does nothing to make it safer.

    If you're splitting costs, think of your needs and requirements before taking to them. If you're part covering the costs to rectify the damaged they did, then your needs need to be meet as well.

    €1000 for a good block wall, or less if ye decide a different option, and remain on good terms with your neighbour could be money well spent.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ Julius Colossal Utopia


    When did I say the neighbour needs to build the OP a wall. Please quote me.

    I'm saying that the neighbour is 100% accountable and responsible for the current wall which is causing a safety issue within the OPs property.

    The neighbour is 100% responsible for all costs in relation to what's currently in place and the OP bears 0 financial responsibility in rectifying the issue.

    I don't understand why people think the OP should offer to pay money towards it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,377 ✭✭✭phormium


    Been looking again at the pics, that new fence cost a few bob and an odd thing to do if one was intending rebuilding the wall! It looks fairly permanent and not as if they are going to just remove the right side to repair/replace/demolish wall. The original fence looks like it was attached to that wall and is obviously disintegrating. Wonder what is supporting the new fence? I can't see anything obvious like new post holders or similar. It's surely not also somehow attached to the old fence/wall?

    There is quite a gap when you take into account the wall/old fence/new fence, maybe neighbour doesn't care though, sure what's a foot of garden! It's hard to see solution here, it's obvious neighbour should have repaired wall when his digger damaged it and then taken off old fence and put the new fence panels there. It's like they were just sick of the mess of wall and fence and just didn't want to see any of it anymore and covered it up with the panels instead of dealing with it correctly.

    If you take down the wall now as it's falling anyway or it falls itself plus the fence neighbour should at least pay for disposing of the stuff although again I wonder what their new fence is supported by? Will you then gain the foot of garden up to his new fence! Are they likely to be happy with that scenario!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,194 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Land law punishes strong statements, but I think you're wrong there.

    In my (non-legal) opinion, building a wall does not move a boundary, but might increase the chance of misunderstandings, and misunderstandings can lead to disputes, and disputes can be disproportionately nasty and expensive.

    It is therefore sensible to retain evidence (photos, surveys etc) whenever structures on or near a boundary are moved, to reduce the chance of future legal disputes, and ideally get statements signed and witnessed when owners are still alive, as your current reasonable neighbour may die and the property be sold to a complete prick.

    The other way of looking at it is that a couple of inches doesn't materially affect the value of a piece of land, so do whatever makes sense and is agreeable now and let the other people fight over the facts when you're dead.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Eirexox


    That’s exactly what I think, they just wanted to cover the ugly mess of a wall so they didn’t have to see or deal with it. Basically they attacked a length of timber to the old rotting fence and just nailed the new fence to it. I find it bizarre they’re clearly spending a lot of money to have their garden and outside area really nice, yet they screw a new fence to a fence that is rotting and attacked to a wall that is falling down lol 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    "Don't be stupid enough to pay for someone else's wall."

    The neighbour doesn't have to build a wall to suit the op, that's my point. They just need to make it safe, and remove any blocks from the neighbours property.

    People don't think the OP needs to contribute towards the neighbours wall, they think both property owners should build a party wall and split the cost. It would give both neighbours more garden space, and solve and stupid arguments.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Eirexox


    Just to clarify, when the neighbor said he was building a new wall my hubby did say if he wants us to contribute we will. He laughed and said no no the builders giving us a good deal and next thing the fence went up.

    Also thanks so much to everyone taking the time to read and respond to this. I understand where everyone is coming from. I do want to confirm we did not want nor did we expect the neighbour to build a new wall at all cost to him or anything like that. It’s the issue of safety now that the wall is damaged and he new this and blatantly ignored it.



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