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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans in OP**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,038 ✭✭✭Deeec


    No I wasn't there. I'm curious though how you know for definite that it's true that Bailey was in her car.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,716 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Of course he was in her car from Cork on Friday, didn't he have a premonition up on Hunts Hill she was coming to visit? Off he went to the airport to meet her and didn't the lad in the filling station recognise Bailey, all 6ft 4ins in the Ford Fiesta with his deerstalker hat and 7ft thinking stick? oh, and the big black overcoat. More absolute nonsense!



  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭Ms Robini




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,038 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Nope I definitely wasn't there. Please can you link an article/report where it confirms that Bailey was in Sophie's car?



  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭Ms Robini


    I’d be very happy to - all in good time and it will be worth the wait.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Yes, there have been some wild, crazy theories thrown out. Unbelievable Hollywood type scripts. Maybe the turkey who attacked Bailey did it?

    Instead of these fantasy theories, it's normally the most simple. And the most simple theory came from Bailey's mouth. He saw her in spar, he fancied her, he was drunk and went up for some action, he got rejected and lost the head, he murdered her.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    That you put history in quotations says a lot. No one comes close to the long list against Bailey. That's just a fact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,137 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Your claims have no credibility when you resort to these tactics... make a definite statement of fact without evidence such as Bailey in Sophie's car and when posters quite reasonably ask for something to back it up ... respond with weasel words.

    Sure anyone can invent anything they want to if that's the case.

    Your claims are without foundation or merit.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,137 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    It is not that simple. If you have been following the thread I've asked multiple times for examples of such a murder scenario playing out. None were provided.

    If it is such a simple plausible theory, where are the other examples of it happening.

    Hit men killing wives before divorces happens, google court cases about it.

    Witnesses being threatened and killed happens.

    It's not always a Hollywood script. It's not wild and crazy. These things happen.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Oh you've reappeared. I think you missed a few posts. Remember this? -

    We've still got the extreme violence committed by Bailey a short time before the murder, we've got his premonition of something bad happening in the area, we've got the changing stories and unknown whereabouts on the night, we've got the injuries, we've got the motive which came from Bailey himself, we've got the suspicious fire, the list goes on. What are your excuses for Bailey on all of those for you to state he's not a suspect in the murder?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭Ms Robini


    I wouldn’t ‘bat’ an eyelid if the Baileyites did point a finger towards that poor old much maligned turkey/ex turkey/former turkey! They can spew forth whatever depraved rubbish they like - the murderer was a ‘two legged animal without feathers’ - a self-described “animal on two feet”.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Other than Jules, is there a record of him assaulting other women? I'm not aware of any others.



  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭Ms Robini


    There were multiple instances of violence towards Jules Thomas. His marriage to Sarah Limbrick was violent. He sexually assaulted Collette Gallagher in the Studio by getting into the bed she was sleeping in and touching her without her consent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    So, there is no record of him being violent towards any woman other than Jules.

    As far as I know there is no record of him ever assaulting Sarah Limbrick, nor of being violent towards Collette Gallagher when his unwanted advances were rejected.

    You appear to be adding two and two and coming up with an implausibly large number as the result.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,137 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I remember asking you questions before about innocent people at the crime scene, and you dodging the question about half a dozen times. Remember that? So you wanna talk about missed posts?

    Multiple posters have pointed out to you the evidence of Garda malpractice such as the Bandon tapes - you ignore it and don't engage with it, and repeat the same stuff about AGS as if the Bandon Tapes weren't mentioned. Did you miss that post too?

    And now, I put questions to you about the murder scenario, and you again ignore it, and just repeat the same paragraph again and again. Did you miss that post too?

    All the points you have raised were looked at in what is taken to be the DPP report. It has been cited multiple times on the thread.

    https://syndicatedanarchy.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/30/

    I don't have to give any 'excuses', they are all there. They've been gone over and over again on the thread already. If your conduct in discussing Bailey's presence at the crime scene is anything to go by, I think we can expect similar feigning of ignorance and disingenuous replies if any other specific points are rehashed again.

    But here's one example from the report:

    Bailey’s explanation for the scratches is plausible, consistent and is supported by other direct and credible evidence.

    It was put to you why the DPP didn't proceed with charges if there was all this 'evidence'? Again, you failed to engage.

    And this is the key point, the DPP is the proper authority to assess this evidence, they reviewed it and concluded that: "A prosecution against Bailey is not warranted by the evidence."

    I wrote the below post explaining why I don't consider Bailey to be a current suspect, you ignored it multiple times.

    So nope, not playing your game. If you're just going to ignore the posts put to you, and repeat the same lines, it is demonstrably a bad faith argument.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914905/#Comment_120914905

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    There isn't one single piece of evidence to prove all of this you're writing here. Also, why would Sophie drive him from the airport home if she rejected him in the first place? And I am sure, Bailey didn't just drink one beer in the pub at the night of the murder, it was certainly more.

    Jules and Bailey were out in the pub the whole night, then returning home and gone straight to bed.

    Suppose Bailey hiked over to Sophie's, left at around 1.30 or 2 am, and would have arrived at Sophie's no earlier than 3 am. Would Sophie have opened the door to him? How would he have gotten her attention? Would Sophie have walked Bailey to the gates, if she rejected him outright? He would then have to murder her at around 3 to 4 am in the morning, leave the crime scene without any incriminating evidence, no fingerprints, no DNA, no fiber of his clothes and that all under the influence of alcohol, left at 4 am to hike back, arriving at the studio at 5 am. He would have to shower, change clothes, and later on burn the clothes behind the house. Also, suppose he drove, then he'd have to clean the car very thoroughly pretty quickly and without being seen. The whole trip to Sophie's would have to have happened a lot qicker if say the time of murder was 6 or 7am.

    He would also have to hide his activity from all the visitors staying over at Jule's house.

    It would have to have been quite a task to complete for Bailey that night, acting with prudence, leaving no traces at all, and that before a longer evening out in the pub. Also, remember, Bailey was a "changed man" under alcohol, even more surprising he was leaving no traces.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    That's a long post basically saying you're not going to answer questions put to you. Fair enough, you don't have to but the questions you ignore are the reason Bailey is the main suspect. You're just going to have to accept that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭oceanman


    How much time? its been nearly 27 years. nobody will ever be convicted of this murder now. least of all bailey.



  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭Ms Robini


    Unwanted advances? An advance is unwanted when a person lets you know they don’t want the attention/intrusion/contact. Colette Gallagher was asleep. She didn’t know Ian Bailey when this happened... Getting into bed beside a sleeping woman and touching her without her consent is sexual violence. She was terrified by the experience and by what he did to her.

    It is known that the marriage to Sarah Limbrick was violent.

    He hospitalised Jules Thomas numerous times.

    He is an extremely violent person. Any attempt to minimise that is beneath contempt.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    As far as I know, legally there is no statute of limitations for murder. The murderer could still be convicted if there actually was strong forensic evidence.

    I take your point, but sadly that is also totally irrelevant in relation to the case at hand. The legal system simply doesn't work that way. Even if Bailey would beat up a different woman every day on the streets, any women he could encounter, he would not be convicted of murder of Sophie.

    He'd most likely be convicted and face jail time for beating up women on the streets, general violence and all sorts of public order offences, even attempted rape if he made unwanted advances in another woman's bed, but not for killing Sophie.



  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭Ms Robini


    It’s not irrelevant in a murder investigation that the prime suspect has an extensive history of violence against women. It shows a pattern of behaviour and a willingness to inflict pain and serious injury on women.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    We can argue all we want, but it still doesn't prove that he did it. If that was the case the Irish courts would have convicted him, - but again, they had nothing on him at all. No fingerprints, no DNA, no fiber of his clothes, no footprints, and that all after several dinks in the pub?



  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭Ms Robini


    Conviction in an Irish court could only follow prosecution - the reason he hasn’t been convicted here is first and foremost that he hasn’t yet been tried.

    Traces were left at the scene; “every crime leaves a trace” etc. The Dr Marten-style boot impression on the neck that was observed in various reports / by the pathologist is one example.

    I have faith in the re-investigation team and that the fresh look at the existing evidence will yield positive results for Sophie and for her family.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Perhaps with improvements in DNA analysis the blood on Sophie's boot might help progress the investigation. If a match or family match can't be found it might at least narrow down the background of the potential killer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Very odd. I mean who burns an axe? If you did wouldn't you remember if it was your fire? Unless it was put there by someone. Why?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    That's true. There was an old case solved in the US where they didn't have the killers DNA on file so no match. Related DNA was on file and using that they re examined those in the area and the killer's name came up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    I asked earlier

    Did the gardai ever say that someone has information. I don't recall so

    They often do if they suspect persons have covered up for the killer



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Yes they did..

    'At least one person has information about the murder of Sophie Toscan du Plantier and has not come forward yet, gardaí have said.

    Investigators have renewed their appeal for witnesses almost 26 years since Ms Toscan du Plantier was killed.'



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Is that implying the killer or others or is it possible to deduce

    I think they use plural sometimes 'persons'



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