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Nigel Farage cries persecution, nobody wants to be his banker after ties to Russia

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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,615 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    I doubt that poster will be around for too long. If I were you, I wouldn't waste my time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,487 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    See, this is the kind of Trumpian post-truthery that is second nature to Farage fanboys. Rapidash assumes that if, he blandly claims with sufficient confidence that the Coutts dossier shows that Farage's relationship with Russia had nothing to do with them, people will assume he is telling the truth.

    The dossier mentions it repeatedly.

    On page 6, mention that "a damning video of all the times Nigel Farage has praised Vladimir Putin is going viral on Twitter", and pointing out that "Farage also blamed the EU and the expansion of NATO for allegedly starting some of the violence, calling the expansion “provocative” and claiming it was “encircling” Russia.”

    On page 8, half a page analysing the public perception of Farage's links to Russia, making the points that

    • He has regularly been seen to be pro Russia / pro Putin.
    • Even following the Russian invasion, he did not criticise Putin but instead blamed the invasion of the EU and NATO.
    • He questioned the sanctioning of Russian individuals.
    • He appeared regularly on RT (up until around 2016/2017 although was offered his own show on RT in 2018).
    • Farage has been labelled a “useful idiot” for Russian influence in the UK.

    On page 10, "there is significant adverse press relating to ‘NF’ in the public domain particularly in relation to their association with ‘Russia’".

    On page 12, the "main themes highlighted" in adverse press coverage of Farage since 2016 include "Russia/Pro Putin/RT links".

    Etc, etc. It's impossible to read the Coutts dossier and not understand that Farage's comments about the EU, NATO and Russia and the general "useful idiot" role he plays for the Russians were instrumental in the views that Coutts formed and the decision that they took.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    All Workers to get access to elitist boutique banks 🤣

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Most of the people affected by this use an ordinary high street bank, if your highness stepped out of the Ivory tower you'd already know that



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    This is all because Nigel doesn't want to step out of his ivory tower. Nothing else.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,953 ✭✭✭Shoog


    The specific complaint by nige is that people are been debanked for their political views. There is zero evidence that customers of high street banks are losing their accounts for their political view. ZERO EVIDENCE.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,487 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus



    A range of ordinary high street banks are obliged by law to offer UK residents a basic account without regard to political opinion, as you'll already know if you've been paying attention. Farage has been offered such an account but has reportedly rejected it. He wants a special account, or a special bank, or quite possibly both.

    Any campaign by Farage will lack credibility unless it starts by acknowledging the account closures caused by Brexit, and campaigns for a revision of Brexit so as to fix this problem. This is a far, far bigger problem that Nigel's posh boy account but it's not one in which, to date, Farage has taken the slightest interest or acknowledged the least responsibility. Precisely for this reason, anyone genuinely concerned about access to banking services would want anybody but Farage to lead or front their campaign. A campaign he runs on this issue must be widely perceived as a sick joke.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    And I'm sure that all of those people who have apparently been "de-banked" will all benefit hugely from Nigels proposals to weaken the Money Laundering laws and water down the criteria for PEP's.

    Those are exactly the kind of changes that the average "man in the street" needs to help them with their banking challenges.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,068 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Farages argument suggests that the act of removing banking services is inherently political, which is total tripe.

    People lose banking services every day for a variety of reasons - and has been said many, many times on this thread, it’s all to do with reducing the banks exposure to risk.

    There is no suggestion that the banks are conducting large scale surveillance on their customers and removing accounts because of what they believe politically. None whatsoever.

    Farage stopped bringing money into his exclusive banking club, this fact alongside his public reputation as a racist, xenophobic grifter made the bank decide it’s not worth keeping him on. His campaign has nothing to do with high street banking, it’s merely ammunition to strengthen his own case for relaxing PEP processes.

    Everyone who think Nigel will help them get their banking services back is going to be disappointed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,487 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Your "working assumption" is not just that the banks are guilty; it's that they're guilty of the very thing you need them to be guilty of in order to bolster your preconceptions. The bank could have closed Konstantin's account for any number of poor reasons but, no, you assume that their reason was the specific one it would have to be in order for Konstantin's case to support your convictions.

    I'm sorry, silverharp, but that's not the way reality works. Your convictions, however sincere, cannot magic up the facts you so desperately want. Your convictions, to be of any value, must be based on the facts. If you do things the other way around your convictions are delusions and the facts will forever remain unknown to you.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thanks for providing evidence that Coutts were weaponizing Farage's views against him in the dossier. That's been my sole focus this whole time.

    Disagreements over NATO expansion have been ongoing for decades, on both left and right, and should never be used as the basis upon which someone's bank account should be shut. It's ludicrous to even justify that claim. Also Coutts refers to Farage "been seen" to have links to Russia. By who? How much of the population? Perception by some people, somewhere, is not evidence of wrongdoing. Yet again, another terrible basis upon which to cancel someone's bank account.

    Next, what I said was true -- namely, that Coutts found no "substantive" link between Farage and Russia. By substantive I mean something as egregious as taking £500,000 from Russia that Labour MP Chris Bryant falsely alleged against Farage. I note that this is one link to Russia that Coutts mentioned which you excluded in your summary.

    You may disagree with Farage's comments over the past decade, but they are legally viable opinions. Farage committed no crime, and has no substantive links to either Russia or the Kremlin. Even the Coutts dossier conceded that (again, quotes from the dossier you conveniently excluded).

    What you are effectively admitting is that someone can justifiably have their bank account closed if their views do not align with yours (or Coutts).

    I happen to disagree. I'd like to think most people do, too.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Guardian issued a report recently that 343,000 bank accounts were closed over the period 2021-2022.

    I'm not suggesting these were all closed for political reasons, but even if a small fraction of that figure was related to the political views of the account holder, that's a wrong that must be addressed.




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Once again - They weren't "weaponising his views against him" they were concerned about his ACTIONS not his opinions.

    Holding the opinions isn't a problem , expressing the opinions like a normal person isn't a problem either.

    The problem is when you use those opinions explicitly to generate controversy to get yourself views/clicks which is what Farage exists to do.

    There is a world of difference between holding a set of views and expressing those views in a manner explicitly designed to generate controversy and media coverage so that you can profit from the fall-out.

    As has been pointed out to you over and over again - The Bank don't care about your views , they care about the impact you might have on their profits.

    And being a loud-mouth who actively seeks out controversy represents a risk to organisations you do business with. They are entitled to protect their business.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,953 ✭✭✭Shoog


    The Tories have so badly mismanaged the countries economy that they have driven 100s of thousands into bankruptcy destitution and bad credit ratings, all reasons for banks withdrawing services. The Tories will resist any review of the banking sector because any such review will show they are the main cause of banks withdrawing services.

    Farages crucade is a mixed up mess that actually deliberately avoids address the issues causing multiple crisis across the whole economy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,068 ✭✭✭McFly85


    They are opinions that he can hold and express and expect to not get arrested for. But expecting no consequences from a private institution for airing those views repeatedly is naive at best.

    Russia is a prime example. Having publicly expressed his support for a leader of a sanctioned country on numerous occasions introduces risk to the bank. Reputational risk in the form of a Putin apologist being publicly known to have an account. Regulatory risk too - while they may not have any concrete links to payments from Russia, they will likely need to ensure they’re covered from a regulatory standpoint in case a future review uncovers something they missed. So that means increased scrutiny on his accounts which will ultimately mean Coutts have to spend more money managing his account. This may not matter if he was bringing in enough to make the cost of business with him worthwhile, but as it has been said on numerous occasions, he hasn’t.

    Expecting your publicly held views to be ignored by a private institution when those views could have a material impact on your business is frankly ludicrous.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,617 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I disagree. A lot of these people are wholly corrupt and they'll be more than happy to strongarm boutique banks into accepting them as consumers. It'll be a small change but there's nothing more conservative than seeking unearned privileges. We've already seen that this crusade of Farage's is a glorified tantrum based on lies to water down anti-money laundering legislation.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The problem is when you use those opinions explicitly to generate controversy to get yourself views/clicks which is what Farage exists to do.

    The implication of your line of argument is that Nigel Farage should not express his opinions because some people consider his views "controversial".

    Controversy is subjective. What one person finds controversial, another deems acceptable. Coutts mentioned that Farage was sceptical of eastward NATO expansion. Some may call that a controversial opinion, whereas it is not a controversial opinion to me. I don't even have to agree with Farage's opinion to remain neutral on the "controversy" point.

    I do not believe that freedom of speech should be curtailed because "some" people subjectively find some views controversial.

    I certainly don't believe that banks should be the arbiters of that decision, either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭Rawr


    This is pretty much part of why I feel GB News itself has some diffculty getting advert revenue. A large segment of potential advertisers have may kept their distance due to the reputational damage advertising on the channel might glean. Regardless of their political standing, many of them simply might not want the headache of having to defend paying money towards such a foghorn of hatred. Far easier for them to not bother, verses the miniscule value of having their advert appear there.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Utterly disingenuous, meaningless factoid.

    How many accounts were opened in the same time period??

    How many of those were just because the customer changed bank?

    How many were because the customer emigrated? (557,000 people left the UK in 2022)

    How many were because the customer died?

    How many were because the company went bust? (22,000 companies officially went into insolvency in 2022 and that doesn't account for all the sole-traders etc.).



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,068 ✭✭✭McFly85


    His freedom of speech has not been curtailed. Has he been stopped making his views known by any institution in the UK?

    And controversy is subjective - so in the banks view, his publicly stated views are controversial enough to introduce risk. Or should private banks have their subjectivity taken away from them?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nobody argued otherwise. Of course there are a multitude of reasons.

    What I said was:

    I'm not suggesting these were all closed for political reasons, but even if a small fraction of that figure was related to the political views of the account holder, that's a wrong that must be addressed.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Or should private banks have their subjectivity taken away from them?

    If banks are compiling dossiers on customers views, Tweets, and personal opinions to establish so-called "risk" -- then absolutely yes, banks should not have the ability to wield that power.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,617 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That'll be exactly it.

    In my opinion, GB News is not a business in the traditional sense. It does not exist to make money. It exists to propagate far right propaganda and to legitimise poisonous crusades so beloved by the American right such as antisemitism, climate denial and anti-vaxx ideology. It's owners aren't throwing their money down the drain for no reason. They're employing people like Rees-Mogg and Farage for legitimacy and this helps them spread their message. It also helps with the American audiences who might want a restoration of the fairness doctrine repealed by Reagan ("Look how bad the Brits are!").

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    "Freedom of Speech" works both ways though.

    Why does it always seems to be needed to be pointed out to those on the right that "Freedom of Speech" is not the same as "Freedom from Consequence"

    Farage is free to say what he likes , but by the very same measure Coutts are free to tell him they don't like him and don't want to do business with him.

    You don't get the freedom to say and do what you like without everybody else having the freedom to respond as they wish as well.

    And that expression might be to call you out for what you say or it might be to deny you service in their place of business because they do not like you or they feel that an association with you would damage their business.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,953 ✭✭✭Shoog


    The law compelled them to do so. They also have a duty to shareholders to minimize exposure to risk and legal actions. What you seem to want is a return to the bad old days when the banks turned a blind eye to the source of deposits, which is what Farage is campaigning for.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    So Banks should not be allowed to measure risk any more is that what you are saying??

    If someones job is to make political statements and promote/propagate right-wing political talking points on TV and Social Media ,how should a financial institution gauge that persons risk profile??



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,953 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Let's not forget his promotion of russian interests, and his wages from a Russian propeganda outlet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    The underlying assumption here is that holding right wing political views is a problem , you would never defend a bank who refused to do business with someone like Paul Murphy who is far more extreme politically than Nigel Farrage



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why does it always seems to be needed to be pointed out to those on the right that "Freedom of Speech" is not the same as "Freedom from Consequence"

    That predictable response gets wheeled out whenever someone defends freedom of speech.

    It goes something like this: "Look, you can say whatever you want. You're totally free to express your opinion. Totally free. Oh yeah, just to let you know there's a sword of Damocles ready to impale your neck if you say it. Just thought I'd mention that for the sake of balance".

    In other words, it's a threat; a threat with a veneer of virtue. "Say the right thing, or else".

    Freedom from consequence is valid if, for example, Farage were implicated in some kind of financial malfeasance, money laundering; that kind of thing.

    But Farage hasn't committed any crime. All he said was banal comments about opposition to eastward NATO expansion.

    I don't believe that freedom from consequence should have the bar set so incredibly low to justify having someone's bank account closed.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,068 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Nope. If the bank could reasonably assume that Murphy was too much risk and closed his account, then that’s up to them. Same as Farage.



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