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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    I have not said anything against EVs, I'm highlighting new technical challenges and risks that need to be mitigated, these must be overcome and there is no widespread experience among the population of safety protocols when dealing with hazards such as battery fires.

    Irish people travel around the globe, the presence of Disney means Florida is a popular destination. Having worked and driven in the US, I know the scale of the road network in that country, you have to plan moving over long distances and you can travel using EVs across the US, you simply have to allow more time to complete the journey. If you are a tourist on a US road trip and in the hurricane belt, you may have to consider how to get to shelter when ordered to evacuate. It takes a while to get the infrastructure back online after a major hurricane rips though an area and as a tourist you don't want to be there, in an EV you are going nowhere when the power lines are down, unless you can pay for a tow.

    Switching back to Ireland, today you can drive to a petrol station and expect to fill your tank and within a few minutes be on your way. There are risks handling petrol and diesel, there are well understood and steps to mitigate those risks are in place. EVs are relatively new technology and it's limits are currently being discovered. Increasingly one of those issues are finding an operational charging station and one that does not have a queue ahead of you. What uptime service levels do charging station operators have in place? What is the duty cycle on charging leads?

    Another issue is structural integrity of roads and multi-story car parks due to the heavier mass of these vehicles, this means infrastructure needs to be upgraded to a higher specification to accommodate them. Who pays for that? Road charging must also change, since there will be less excise and other duties from fuel to fund this.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    They can't put it out in the first place, they let it burn. It takes days.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    Google my friend and you will see they can put it out. The issue is they can reignite. Also the amount of water required so they are coming up with options.

    To finish this off because I have heard all this before. I have two cars, requirement for my location and both adults working. One electric and one combustion. You could do the same to majority of two car households in the World very easily. This would not affect the charging network as 99.9% of the time this is done from home at night time. Plus you don't need these massive batteries and range because its the work horse. I do majority in the electic because 99% of my trips like most people in Ireland are nipping to shops/school/gym/football etc

    The amount of fud fired out about electric cars to be honest is amusing but its the same with any new technology.

    My diesel car weights a lot more than the electric car, should we worry about car parks with that? because believe you me the car parks are full of them.

    Tax on cars was always going to change, as I said I have a monster diesel car and the tax is 333, f**king ridiculous it is so low. Never mind the stuff blowing out the back. So never mind the electric car. Thread on here with the government already talking about a weight based system which is probably what will come in. Then you will see people get over buying the biggest battery. You have people in electric cars talking about charging once a week? that's just a waste of a battery.

    As I said all of this has been discussed for years and majority has answers.


    Quick tip, if flying to the US then I would get a combustion car and don't fly in hurricane season.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    Rail is for mass movement of people from one location to another.

    Also from a tourism point of view it is shocking that people can't travel around ireland without a car or getting on buses.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The UK is late to the game in turning into Trumpland but they're playing a blinder catching up lol



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    There’s a growing untapped market for it in this country too to counteract the tripe coming from Green TDs since 2020.

    Only a few rural independents seem to be making hay out of it so far.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Don't believe everything you see on the Internet. Google doesn't have all the answers. Just ask your local fire service what their policy is for controlling battery fires. Blankets and water aren't as safe or effective as some chap in Asia or wherever makes out. We have more stringent standards to meet in Ireland.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Only a few rural independents seem to be making hay out of it so far.

    That should tell you all you need to know

    Especially seeing as survey after survey shows consistently solid support for climate action, it's no wonder the major parties are mostly on board with the climate action plans, with the exception of the odd winge here or there





  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Most people support climate action. Not the Green Party. I did make that distinction in my post.

    Most people support decarbonised power generation, solar panels, wind turbines, hydroelectricity, interconnectors, electric vehicles, trams, better bus services, heat pumps, more energy efficient homes, electric railways, greenways, cycle lanes etc

    Most people don't support catastrophisation, arrogance, being told that someone else knows what's best for them, this ridiculous war on the car, and the fact that the Green Party in Ireland is turning into a hard left wing party running under a green flag.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    I think you should read the manifesto of every party going for election in 2020. I refer to a previous post when I say who you think ran with this in their manifesto?

    1. Ban all fracking
    2. Terminate all peat and coal electricity production
    3. No new licenses for drilling on or off shore. No exploration at all allowed
    4. Divest out of fossil fuels
    5. A transition force to move to renewables


    Anyway I think you will find most people are aware we need to make changes for the environment. That just makes sense. The question is how do we do it.

    Public transport of course in Ireland is the most obvious you would think, but even that still gets people all hot and bothered.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Fine Gael perhaps?

    All 5 of those options make sense, perhaps with number 3 being slightly debatable due to the long tail of oil and gas in the energy mix for at least the next 20-30 years. Most people would broadly support that list.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    Sinn Fein

    If you look back on this thread we have a number of posters who are very hot on the topic of drilling.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Sinn Fein have a bit of a circle to square about there being a disconnect between people who say they will vote SF in polls on certain policy issues and SF's actual policy stance on that topic.

    I'm not sure if polling has been done on other issues but in a SBP poll in June SF attracted the highest proportion of voters who felt strongly about immigration, despite SF having rather liberal policies on immigration. I'd imagine it'll be the same re: climate action.

    SF are the "anti establishment/anti Government/anti elite" lightning rod that in other European countries that has been taken up by right wing parties.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,055 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Its easy to understand why there is confusion about Sinn Féin's policies on all the various issues. They either change with such regularity or are so opaque that nobody could be expected to have any clarity.

    I fully expect them to mirror the Tories volte-face on green issues at some point between now and the three upcoming elections. But probably not for long.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,055 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Very well described.

    And a largely socialist party is not going to last too long, if its manifesto ends up putting very significant costs on those who are most likely to vote for the Left, ie those on lower incomes or living in deprived circumstances.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Exactly, Sinn Fein have as much interest in drilling as they have in learning to play the Lambeg drum. In power, they would have enough enemies within the Irish establishment, picking a fight with the EU over Climate Change™ would be a battle they don't pick. The most likely formation to inhibit climate action would be a coalition with a group of independents.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    The first bit seems a bit overstated to me. There are a lot of people against wind turbines for instance. And things like heat pumps are at least controversial. Maybe one should make a distinction between personal choice (heat pumps, solar panels etc) and public policies related to the environment and the economy which at the moment seem too much entangled.

    Personally i do not know what "climate action" actually means. The climate is..well..the climate. Little we can do about it. Climate (read weather) impact mitigation is a better way of going about things. The western world has been doing it for a long time and much progress has been made. Less people affected by climate (read weather) extremes, especially after ww2. The media presents the opposite as true. Well, long term trends is the scientific way to go about it and up until about 2020 there has not been much of an uplift. This of course might change but we have to wait at least 15-20 years to make any kind of assessment. And the Greens say we will all be doomed by then if..

    In french you have a nice expression: les extremes ce touches.Go far enough left and you meet the extreme right equally supporting stringent compliance mechanisms..just different forms of fascism..



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    So anyone who questions Green Party policy based on economic viability, cost to the consummer, energy security, putting all our eggs in the wind basket, etc, etc, has no been re-classified from being climate denier heretics to being anti environment people have they ?

    How are carbon taxes fully avoidable, by stealing a bike and going to live in a cave ? The Green Party support, such as it is, comes from those well off leafy suburbs and idealistic 18 -24 year olds where I`d wager many are still relying on the bank of Mum and Dad. The only people who can avoid carbon taxes or afford any of the rest of these upgrades are those well enough off without it making much of a dent. Not so for the ordinary householders. Far as I`m concerned any state aid to anyone recieving assistance to avail of these initiatives should be means tested. But then whose vote is that going to have the most detrimental effect on. Great idea on rolling out of all those schemes similar to the compulsory water meters. That was such a massive success

    Far as I recall, did you not post that smart meters were a con ?

    If the public fully support Green Party policy then the opinion polls give no indication that they do. They are consistently polling within the margin of error with half the support they recieved in the G.E. As you say in government formation talks all party`s have their red lines, but when it came to the reduction of cattle numbers it seems the Green Party neglected to mention it when we saw them last year threatening to walk if they didn`t get their way, and I don`t remember a Green Party red line being the banning of all forms of LNG. I do remember them proposing a bill last year to do so though.

    Whoever these anti environment people of yours are I dont know anyone that is not in favour of improving public transport, reducing carbon emissions or replacing fossil fuels over time The problem with greens is that they have an ideological wish list where it all has happen tomorrow without a single idea on how to do that which would not flush our economy down the toilet. Their energy policy is economically bat **** crazy and the one plan that has been costed based on another item of their wish rail for everybody in the audience is no better.

    The Irish Green Party are suffering a backlash similar to the government in the Netherlands on farming and the E.U Commission on their Nature Restoration Law. They have over-reached with their wish list and timelines. When it comes to money people are not stupid. They know there are no magic money trees and that they are ones that would be paying for that over-reaching. They have only to look back a few years to see how that worked out for them with the banking property bubble, or even your water meters roll out plan..

    The irony, is that the one for everyone over-reching wish list plan they did cost on rail ended up with even the authors saying it would make no difference to road usage even after a €36 Bn investment, is that will now stick in the piblic memory and make it more difficult to to get public acceptance for moneies spent on areas of the rail network that make practical and economic sense.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I never mentioned the GP 🤷‍♂️

    Personally I don't care who brings about the transition to a cleaner, greener country, it can be the Monster Raving Looney Party for all I care

    As for war on the car, the persecution complex is hilarious given the state of our towns and cities because of cars.

    It's good to see the priority shifting with the car now the lowest priority, it will only lead to much better places to live and work



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    SF have no stance on anything. They can't even get it right within the party with one story been told in the North and another in South.

    Honestly if someone is against wind turbines and heat pumps it easier just to move on

    What is "Climate action", it is anything. Recycling is the easiest form of climate action. People seem to get hung up that they are supposed to buy an electric car etc etc but in reality this is not true. It's better for the environment just to run a diesel into the ground than buy a new electric.

    If by the "Greens" you mean the Green Party they are not saying we will be all doomed. Plus the Irish Green party is tiny and has no control over the media. I think you will find that is controlled at a much higher level.


    The media need a crisis, covid gave them a taste of what a big crisis was like and they are hungry for more. When you have them reporting on rubbish like "Global Boiling" you know they have lost the run of themselves. It hasn't stopped f**king rain here all day, boiling what now?

    To me it is simple, Ireland needs better public transport, if we get that under the banner of climate change so be it. But at the end of the day we are a small country with a terrible terrible public transport system.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,388 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Its this type of smugness that will be the down fall of your beloved green policies. If you keep thinking anyone who doesn't agree with you is a trump supporter or flat earth believer you will loose the middle ground, the silent majority who care about the environment but also are acutely aware damege to their pockets.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    If their is one thing that cannot be said about SF it`s that they are not very acrobatic where needs must on policy is concerned.

    If there is one party that wll be hunting down green seats in the next GE it is SF where greens ended up with seats due to SF not running enough candidates last time out.

    There are a few items on that list that are not in line with Green Party policy though.

    If greens favour geothermal, how does that differ to any great extent from fracking, and at least SF had enough sense not to look for a ban on domestic turf burning, where frankly greens made fools of themselves with their proposal.

    The no exploration or drilling on or offshore doesn`t really fit with the Irish Green policy either when you are handing out licences for gold and silver exploration, but then SF have mastered vagueness when it comes to policy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sorry but I haven't stopped laughing at the UK since the Brexit vote and I don't see that changing any time soon



  • Registered Users Posts: 423 ✭✭jonnreeks


    Some of the current "green" initiatives are really only a feel good factor! ☺️



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,055 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    You'd be a fool to think that right-wing policies that lessen government interference in ordinary people's lives and end the societal brow-beating and better protect the fruits of people's hard earned graft, won't make it into Irish politics.

    They will, and they are, and FF and FG are the only only on the scene who are likely to soft-adopt some of them. And that will be at the expense of The Green Party, who whether you care to acknowledge it or not, are the only ones who will deliver your extremist agenda.



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    I am a left winger turned right winger just by standing still. Not even an old fashioned age thing either. Progressives ask questions. Those who move to prevent those asking questions and want arbitrary stringent compliance rules not based on logic or science but are driven by ideology are the enemy as far as i am concerned. Have and always will be..

    If you want to call me a Trump or Putin lover or fascist or nazi you are welcome to it. Just an indication of your stupidity. Ignore..



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,055 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    What ARE you talking about?

    Sorry, I see you are making a rhetorical point.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    You must be rolling around the flour in hysterics of laughter on Germany so.

    They are back strip mining coal due to closing the last of their nuclear plants that were providing 6% of their electricity, and in October 2022 called for E.U. states to work with countries that can develope new gas fields. They are also, in conjunction with the Netherlands, going back to drilling for gas in the North Sea.



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