The 2023 All Ireland Senior Football Championship (Sam Maguire Cup)

Dubs the better team, got their points a lot handier than Kerry. Dunno how they ended with 15 players on the pitch tho.

1 Kerry keeper getting clattered coming for a high ball

2 think Costello? punched his man in the stomach second half

3 James mc carthy- possible straight red for what he got booked for, should have been on a yellow from first half.

Anyone got twitter clips etc of the 3 incidents. Would a man down from any of those 3 made the 2 pt difference?

How many of the past 20 finals have featured Dublin or Kerry?

17 out of 20 I think. To anyone under the age of 30, that's complete dominance.

They don't remember Kerry or Dublin's droughts

Mannion is young enough I think? Cant see why he would retire.

I suppose its a sign of how good the team is that 2 years where they lost AI semi-finals in injury time are bad years.

They may not win it next year, but they will be right up there and I wouldnt be surprised to see them do it again.

Mannion is only gone 30… ‘looks’ in great shape…seems to have rebounded from ankle surgery brilliantly…

3 semi finals since 2011 also.

Dublin and Kerry will always be thereabouts cos of their grassroots and coaching structure. No reason why other counties can't catch up.

Be interesting to see how Offaly do in future.

Blame the media all you want (and they need a slap), but there's a few lads in here that need their head checked. It borders on creepy how they go on about him.

That said, yet again the Champions are being overshadowed by the ramblings of a load of blokes who obsess over a 24yo footballer. Can't talk about Gaelic games these days without shoehorning him in somewhere.

Would you catch yourself on. Christ on a bike.

That’s a very good post and I appreciate the more respectful response.

Again, the game has completely changed and we are likely never going back to the days of individual performances from star forwards moving the needle the way it did in the past. Forwards now just don’t get the space and the opportunities for 1 v 1’s that they did when games were much more open and individual battles mattered far more.

The standard of the game has never been higher, players are faster, fitter, stronger and more skilful than ever and the tactics employed are on another level entirely to anything that was there even ten years ago.

Your original point is that the quality was higher back in the 00’s and mine was that it’s not really comparing apples with apples. IMO you are romanticising the 00’s a bit. There was more individual star power but scoring averages across games are higher now than ever before and the best teams have big spreads of scorers with higher efficiency, half backs and even corner backs have never been more important in terms of contributing going forward and it’s not because forwards aren’t good. The bar has been raised significantly IMO and good teams just won’t let an opposing forward take over a game now. Clifford and O’Callaghan are as good as you will get in any era and both were kept under wraps yesterday by good defensive setups that limited them to low percentage opportunities for example.

Gooch and others would be great in any era but how would the likes of Mconville, McFadden and others that you’ve mentioned fare today with packed defences and all of the things employed in the modern game to curb their influence? They would undoubtedly be very good players but I think they’d find the going a hell of a lot tougher than they did back in their day.

I get where you are coming from but you will be waiting a long time for another era with a whole plethora of standout players dominating the scoring in the championship in the way we have had at times in the past unless there are very dramatic rule changes brought in to reverse the way that the game has evolved.

Are posters still going on about the fella Fitzsimons put manners on? STILL? The other 29 starting players and subs seem to have been forgotten!

Wouldn’t a more relevant question by how many Dublin players have 8 all irelands?

A great quiz question must less obvious than the three lads with 9.

That Puck in Kilorglin! The original Kerry goat……

I know this will be turned into something it isn't by those waiting to take offence.

Nobody stood up on either team for the majority of the game in fairness, it was nip and tuck all the way. Players like Mannion (yes blanch, he did miss a few) and others were off target and not performing on both sides at times. Read the live comments here and you will see that.

The difference was again Dublin being able to send on the quality of subs that other teams just don't have. They are not on the bench because they are not as good as the starting player they are like for like replacements.

Very few teams will be able to compete against that. Is it an unfair advantage? IMO yes it is in an essentially amateur game.

GOAT conversations are for boys and girls who read comics TBH. Not interested tbh.

Players in amateur games will have poor games, poor periods in games and the opposite of that too

Players are a part of a team and perform as a result of teamwork. If you can make like for like replacements you can bring players like Fenton into it in the latter stages, that's what happens in tight games Dublin invariably will win.

There is a danger that Clifford might be off form in the coming seasons like COC now. When Con first came on the scene he was unbelievable. DC greatness for me will be determined in the next 5 years and we will see how he deals with new seasons and new players. Changing players and tactics in the team, injuries etc. He will always have potential but can he keep up what he does or will he be less of an influence in the future years? I think the latter is possible. I think DC is a super player but he's isn't what the media and some Kerry fans make him out to be. He is overhyped I think. There were better players in Kerry before who got less of the limelight, Gooch and Donaghy included. They were both smart and clever players and I think had better heads than Clifford especially under pressure.

On the match itself I agree with you that it was an odd game both teams had so many chances.

But the 'amateur game' implication. I am not letting that one go. That bench Dublin now have was basically formed from fellas out of retirement, which had serious question marks over them fitness, form etc.

Also Bugler missing out for Dublin was a major loss, it meant there was one Dublin sub less straight away. Similar to how Dublin had to start Kilkenny, Kerry had to start O'Brien.

The fact is all the players are amateurs that is is point number 1. I am sure when Conor McManus was used as sub for your own county you did not feel it was an 'unfair advantage' that other teams could not compete with? Maybe it would be much fairer if Monaghan kept him in the stands altogether?

Number 2 Dublin start with a weaker team than they finish with for that last 20 minute purpose (since the Mayo match).

Kerry had a stronger starting eleven v Dublin but did not make hay in that first 20 minutes which is where they needed to win the game. In fact it could be said that Dublin were unlucky not to be leading going into half time.

Dublin had to 'compete' with a player in David Clifford that very few other teams have to face. He had that bit of magic in the closing of the first half creating that goal for Geaney despite having a 'bad game'. Is that an unfair advantage in an 'amateur game'?

Kerry won nothing from 1987-1996 and again from 2015-21. It goes in cycles for all counties. There's also a big difference between winning and being competitive.

I just mean from the perspective of talking about Dublin's advantages, what advantage do Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone have, but we're consistently competitive.

If it wasn't for that great Dublin team, Kerry and Mayo would have a few more AIs.

I don't like talking about Dublin's advantages anyway, we should be talking about the greatness of their players.

All the sacrifice and discipline and hard training they do. All the time that all the coaches put in to their communities.

I'm assuming Dessie Farrel isn't being paid and has given his life to Dublin GAA.

And Dublin have once in a lifetime players which is why they brought them back. But to go crowing about Dublin's bench when Dublin were struggling all year for a bench. Losing to Derry, struggling to Clare and Cork in league. Roscommon and Derry showed how to play this Dublin side - as did Monaghan

Dublin would have lost Leinster Semi if Kildare had any nous even still. Kildare did not have it between the ears. Simple as that. Consistently inconsistent.

Dublin had to bring the old guard back this year. Dublin were struggling to find a midfield partner for Fenton etc. Cluxton was at home sweeping the floor...

Mannion off form, McCaffery question marks on his fitness, always a hamstring injury waiting to happen, The cupboard was bare.

You know exactly what my point is and are just playing thick when is suits

McManus coming on as sub for Monaghan won your team many a game.Using your logic having 'Mansy' a 'player of a life time' on the bench was unfair! If Monaghan enticed a few Armagh lads (that are wasted on MGeeney) or yer man Sam Mulroy from Louth - Monaghan could be pushing for AI's.

But that is up to the Monaghan county board if Monaghan were serious that is what they should be doing. Monaghan were only two.three players away from having a great side with the subs to boot. The structure and style of play Monaghan have is spot on - well drilled.

Mick O'Dwyer brought in a raft of imports for Kildare back in the 90's and it brought success. I don't even think Monaghan need that many. If Monaghan did get Sam Mulroy for example it could transform them. I couldn't believe how good that fella was when I saw him play in the Leinster Final. Unfortunately due to the way the all-stars are created Mulroy will never get real recognition - the free feed and the trip abroad.

Also the Dublin subs are not 'like for like'. Which Dublin player offers what Jack McCaffery does? Kilkenny is not the same type of player as Basquel. To say that the Dublin subs are like for like is more myth making.

Dublin have as Sinead O'Connor would say 'Nothing Compared' to Fenton. If Fenton got injured for example - Dublin are then talking about McMahon/Lahiff/ P.OCofaigh-Byrne!

Like for like mo thoin....

Mayo should've beaten us in 2014 semi also. Kerry were very lucky.

But as you say they probably would've found a way to lose to Donegal in the final.

But that Mayo team were able to go toe to toe with a Dublin team that lots of people call the greatest ever.

They were easily the 2nd best team in Ireland from 2012 to 2021 but came away with nothing but painful memories.

Right so you are going on about Wicklow. Louth etc. Meath and Kildare are their own f**K ups they are way underacheiving particulary Kildare zero excuses.

You don't seem to mention how handy it is for Kerry in Munster - a hurling province. Waterford. Clare. Limerick and Cork up and down like a whores knickers. That is just an accident of geography and the problem with the provincial structure. Which is unfair. Which is why the league is fairer.

I mean in hurling I would like to see the Kilkenny cats spilt in nine. But the truth is Dublin hurlers playing Kilkenny over the years has helped raise Dublin's standards, showing them the bar that must be achieved.

In football this year Kerry, Galway, Derry, Mayo - will all be thinking 'what if'. With a bit more luck or a top tier manager/nous who knows.

Kerry - kicked it away this year when it mattered

Derry - did even more panicking than Kerry lacked the nous. At 2 points up in the closing stages of the Semi0 Final you kill the game slow it down, work the ball in for the easy mark or free. Instead Derry panicked and stopped doing all the good stuff, they did all year.

Galway - were let down by Comer and his injury proneness, and Walsh just seemed wrecked in the last few games - take those two out of any side and they struggle

Mayo - were Mayo imploded in that 10 minutes of the second half when they previously had Dublin where they wanted them. No game management from Mayo when it mattered.

-

As for Wicklow a load of them played in a Dublin club championship beating Vincents and Pat Gilroy -2003 with John Divily (Galway) and a Westmeath intercounty lad on the bench. Unable to play because of transfer question marks.

The previous year in 2002 UCD got to the fina and l - when the basically intercounty team of UCD beat Vincents. Thankfully the colleges now compete in their own competition. UCD won the thing again 2006.

UCD were basically training country lads and raising their standards while allowing them to compete with intercounty players and even winning championships

Rathew beat a Vincents containing D. Connolly etc in the Leinster club championship in more recent years. I have not even mentioned Longford's Mullinaughta beating Kilmacud Crokes recently.

Also Corofin has long dominated club football but it has not translated to Sam wins for Galway at intercounty level. Cuala are an oasis in Dublin hurling terms even GAA terms. Mick Holden the first pioneer playing for Heffo's footballers.

But you know all this I suspect, however it does not suit your narrative.

Haha I should be lined up and shot for that! I blame the womens soccer.