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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,391 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Just to correct you, its being built on the grounds of St.James, not St.Vincents. Thats twice I've seen you make that mistake.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    The Derry to Letterkenny route has also other implications in terms of cross border links.

    This tweet kind of says it all. W ehave huge sections of the country with no rail at all and that has to be fixed while upgrading the current lines to provide more trains and connections





  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Wow.

    I'm not talking about Sunak's electoral success. That wasn't the question. I am talking about the consequences for the globe if every country decided to 'Max out' on their fossil fuel reserves

    If everyone burnt all of their reserves, that is 5 trillion tonnes of Carbon Dioxide released into the atmosphere which will raise global temperatures by between 6.4 and 9.5c. (plus the additional warming from all of the feedbacks that would be triggered from the death of our rainforests and the melting of all of the worlds perma frost)

    Based on this. Do you think the real measure of Sunak's policy change is whether he gets a boost in the polls at the next general election?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    You are right, my apologies. Still doesn't change the issues with traffic getting in and out of the hospital.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,391 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Again, i refer you to my previous point, its the pt version of a motorway to every county. Look at trip generators and population densities before getting bogged down in green wish lists.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    I am not getting bogged down in any Green wish list. I lived abroad for years and found rail to be an excellent means of transport and I use in Ireland now even with the limited coverage when possible. I honestly don't understand why people wouldn't want a proper rail system in Ireland?

    I attached a photo I got from wiki in regards to the motorway in Ireland. I am not sure what your point is. We have motorways in reality linking all major cities apart from Limerick - Cork which is already in the pipeline. National roads connecting the rest and then an extensive labyrinth of roads interconnecting these roads and every part of Ireland.





  • Registered Users Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Says the guy who doesn’t know what continent he lives on 😂😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,379 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    it's as likely to happen as this :

    The Atlantic corridor or Atlantic motorway is a proposed road project in Ireland. The scheme, announced in 2005, was intended to link Waterford in the South-East to Letterkenny in the North-West via motorway or dual carriageway by 2015



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As we've seen with the WRC, economics isn't the blocker you think it is

    Note, I think the WRC is a colossal waste when the money would have been better spent on the main Galway - Dublin line



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    Not sure why would you want to ruin the countryside to build a stupid big road for limited traffic when a rail link would be a lot better investment.

    In 2005 the answer to all questions was to "build a road". Hopefully after nearly 20 years we have learned our lesson in regards to that



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Not sure why would you want to ruin the countryside to build a stupid big road for limited traffic when a rail link would be a lot better investment.

    Tell us how you really feel. It's a 16.5m wide dual carriageway. Not a monstrosity.

    In 2005 the answer to all questions was to "build a road". Hopefully after nearly 20 years we have learned our lesson in regards to that

    The roads we built around 2005-2010 have been a massive success for the country. Having such access around the country has been a major help for the economy, especially recovering from the recession. They have helped us to recover and now have a very strong secure standard of living, the same standard of living you seem to take for granted and moan about on here all the time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    I'd say that map is out of date now too. For starters the Mullingar - Athlone line is a greenway now.

    On the motorway talk, I think we're nearly good for motorways. Limerick to Cork should be built. That gives a motorway all the way to Tuam from Cork. The M4 and M3 could be extended on a bit more and the M11 should go down to Wexford Town



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Motorways left to build in Ireland based on raw traffic figures:

    M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy (commencing late 2024)

    M21 Limerick-Rathkeale (Adare bypass) (commencing 2025)

    M20 Cork-Limerick (in planning)

    M6 Galway Ring Road (in planning)

    M40 Cork Northern Ring Road (in early planning)

    M11 Oilgate-Wexford (in planning)

    M2 Ashbourne-Kilmoon Cross (short extension of the M2) (in planning)

    Also, possibly a short section of M4 beyond Mullingar.

    Based on raw traffic figures, the N22 and N71 into Cork support motorways for the first 10km or so but these are currently not planned.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    The majority of business are based in the Dublin area. We have some companies in Cork/Galway/Limerick etc but the huge hub is Dublin. Even with the motorway network the amount of companies we have managed to move outside of Dublin is limited

    Would it be better with more rail. I don't know to be honest but it might have helped

    Yes the roads are a success but we should have invested in the rail at the same time. 1-1 investment would have made sense to me

    I have no moan about Ireland standard of living at all. I think we have a great standard of living. In terms of transport we have a poor public transport system which has been chronically underfunded for years.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ye know how I said the UK was turning into Trumpland, well this is right out of the Trump playbook

    The Indian IT company is owned by the prime minister’s wife’s family although Sunak has insisted the matter is of “no legitimate public interest”.


    It has since come to light that the IT giant has been involved in £172 million worth of public sector contracts in the UK, and even the most innocent bystanders would admit that the current drive to increase oil and gas exploration in the North Sea is more than convenient.


    What’s more, it is made even more convenient by the fact that one of Infosys’ other major clients is Shell, whose CEO joined Rishi Sunak’s new business council two weeks ago and promised a “candid collaboration” with his government.

    Even better, insisting that granting over a hundred new oil & gas licences is perfectly in line with net zero commitments




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    The first bit about nepotism I've reposted to the British Politics thread as that is interesting in its own right.

    As for British net-zero targets they are just paying lip-service and I suspect before long they will even drop that virture-signalling. They are squarely going for energy security using the current carbon-based infrastructure.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Looks like it, well, for as long as the Tories remain in power



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    In practice I am not sure the UK Labour party would be any different but this is off-topic for here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Why would one of the biggest wind companies call a halt in the middle of a project for offshore wind in an area of relatively shallow water?

    While our own clowns are pushing ahead with a more expensive project in deeper Atlantic waters?



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    It is important to frequently mention the cost/benefit analyses one should do for any project. Not only for companies who by rule have to (shareholders) but also by state/ governments (stakeholders) who used to do it but increasingly aren't or ignore it.

    An essential important thing to remember is that solar and wind can only produce (unstable/intermittent) electricity. It also cannot actually make anything like a physical product. So, if we stop using hydro carbons and nuclear energy, push for zero emissions, you are basically saying you are against any modern physical product and you want to go back to pre industrial times and start cutting down trees and using dung for fuel like around 30% (i think) of the present population is still doing. That is the ultimate reality check. Now, if the greens can come up with a sensible solution i am happy to hear it..

    You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You either have a modern industrial society or a pre industrial one. Which one would you pick? I and most people will chose the former. The discussion is really about what economic model will suit most people..



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Last month, a YouGov poll found that around 70 per cent of adults support net zero. If this entailed “some additional costs for ordinary people”, however, that share falls to just over a quarter. The wonder isn’t the political faltering of net zero. The wonder is that it took until Uxbridge. [Uxbrige & South Ruislip by election result, July 2023]


    This, I think, is the argument that a future Tory leader will make, and to great electoral effect: “Human-induced climate change is real and terrible. Don’t mistake us for denialists. But this is a medium-sized, post-industrial nation that accounts for around 1 per cent of the world’s greenhouse gas emissions. The ecological future of the Earth rests on giant middle-income countries, not on us. “We should decarbonise. It would be weird to abstain from a technological crusade that America and the EU are going to make sure happens regardless. Britain has already committed a fortune in sunk costs. But a rush to net zero? That will cost you, dear voter, in ways that we politicians have obfuscated in the past. And what will that cost achieve? Not a material dent in the climate problem, but the setting of a moral example, as though India and China set their watches by us. Liberals forever accuse us on the right of overrating Britain’s sway in the world. Well, look who is grandstanding now.”

    Interesting opinion piece in yesterday's FT about the Tories turning their back on the UK's net zero consensus.

    My first thought when reading it was, which one of the big 3 Irish political parties will be the first to jump on this bandwagon?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    The UK polls would probably reflect results here if similar was carried out. Most people would support getting to net zero, and those same people would want someone else to carry the cost. This is one reason I don't think the greens will be wiped out at the next election. Their voters all want changes, but the changes that will happen aren't directly impacting them (land use change, herd reductions, wind/solar farms in neighbourhoods). The things that would affect them like more public transport and the like they already have, so more is better. It's not impacting them. However, once it starts to impinge on their lives, they, like everyone else are up in arms. Look at the plans to make gardens smaller for buses, more densely populated housing/apartments in neighborhoods.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    I agree about the no wipeout for the Greens. The backlash against the Greens will be in non urban constituencies, and there are only 3 Green TDs in partly rural constituencies (Carlow/Kilkenny, Waterford and Wicklow).

    If the constituencies had enough people who put Green stuff as their main issue in 2020 they'll likely have enough again in 2020.

    I could see them losing Limerick though. Jan O'Sullivan is gone and the Soc Dems seem to be prepping a local candidate to eat the soft left vote there. That's aside from the record of the Green TD which will see a backlash in certain quarters.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,877 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Why has it to be fixed? Rail to population centres makes sense. Rail to rural locations doesn't. That means you won't get rail to huge sections of the country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    How big of a population centre?

    Once you have places linked with rail the population booms.

    If we have any long term plan for housing etc its not spreading Dublin out further and further. If we can link towns via a good rail link we can regenerate town/villages and provide housing to people

    I have friends in UK who live in Brighton and get the train into London. That is what we should aim for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Now, that isn't true really about towns booming due to a rail line. I can think of a few towns in the midlands that have a rail line, and a station if not in the town just a couple of km away and all those places aren't booming in any sense of the word, and if there is a population rise it's not due to the rail line being nearby. Look at Roscrea, Cloughjordan, Birdhill, Templemore, towns close to Ballybrophy station), Monasterevin, Bagnelstown, Thomastown.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    Do any of them have train leaving for commuters to get into Dublin for work? Irish rail website is awful but if I take Roscrea I think from the timetable the train gets in at 10 Monday to Friday.

    Unless they have trains that can get people to and from work for a 9-5 job it is fairly pointless.

    As I said link towns via a good rail link.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    The large portion of Green TDs are in The Pale and those that aren't got in by skin of teeth on the last count. Means they can act as a regionalist party which will help them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Well that's changing the goalposts somewhat isn't it. Not everyone works in Dublin. Now all I mentioned are on a line to/from Dublin, with the exception of the spur line linking Ballybrophy and Limerick via Roscrea/Nenagh/Birdhill. Perhaps if trains ran to get people to the big cities well before 9am then maybe more people would use it and then the population of those towns may grow as a result of the train service.

    BTW, train from Ballybrophy to Nenagh is 50mins. It's 30 in the car down the M7. Train isn't really competing in that case. At least not competing enough to get a changeover of car users to trains. Probably plenty of other examples of that. The investment then should be to make the trains run more often to move people where they need to go on time. As it stands, it's not doing that. Nenagh train to Dublin lands you in Heuston near 10am. Far too late but maybe there isn't the demand for that service



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    Sorry it's not. I made the point that people in the UK can travel from Brighton to London for work. That putting a train into an area will help the area boom. Have a look at Dunboyne in Meath after the train station was put in for an example

    We have a terrible train system, if we had a train from Roscrea into Dublin daily why wouldn't people use it? we have thousands using trains every other day. A 4 bed house in Roscrea is 350k in Roscrea, the same house with that garden in Dublin????? Double

    If we put a proper system in place it would help reignite villages.


    https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/montevideo-rd-roscrea-co-tipperary/4662362



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