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MS in all its glory

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  • Getting an awful lot of spasms on my hands, more particularly in my left hand, eg of I even attempt to pick up likes of a kettle it will lock painfully and unpredictably, and the only thing for it is to manually straighten my fingers with my right hand. More disturbingly it was verging that way on the steering wheel of my car this afternoon, and I had to make sure to keep it flat against the wheel. The steering is light in my car, and I am likely to have to give up driving at some stage, before it gets hazardous. As it is I will only drive on my better days, and for appointments etc I book taxis.

    All my muscles are tending to spasm lately, including chest and abdominal muscles, which I interpret as the so-called “MS hug”. The abdominal spasms most often happen when I attempt to get up from a sitting position. I get foot cramps too, and bilateral calf cramps, and on sone occasions thigh cramps.

    Had anyone found any particular remedy good, or might side-effects be worse than the muscle cramps?

    I will get discussing this with the neuro team at some stage soon, but they are focussing on getting me started on Ocrevus asap.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,155 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    Are you on baclofen ? It was the first thing I was on for spasms and it was my ms nurse who put me on it .

    Otherwise with me , I went to the bathroom and managed to fall over on the way back. No harm done but it still took over an hour to get back up

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on




  • Getting up after a fall is so difficult. I have fainted sometimes (had a seizure after fainting too) and had to be carried to bed and unable to move for half a day. Yesterday I nearly fell head first onto the balcony when going to water the plants. I’ve heard about Baclofen, but I’m only new to the system, so the Prof was all for us on putting the foot on the pedal to get disease modifying therapy. Decades of symptoms were ignored, a lot my fault because I didn’t put enough emphasis on them, but I was going through other major stuff, internal bleeding, cardiac stuff, some of it life threatening, so a numb dragging foot takes back seat.





  • Last Wed the Prof ordered brain & spine MRI WITH CONTRAST, he emphasised the contrast bit as being important to highlight newer active inflammation, along with other tests before putting me on Ocrevus. As I have insurance he suggested Blackrock, and yesterday they phoned me to come in Sunday evening to have all this done.

    Today they phoned me and asked would I come in earlier as they found they had been getting through cases quicker than anticipated, and I said fine. I lay on the MRI table and asked when the cannula would be put in from the contrast. They said 40 mins into the procedure they would introduce gadolinium contrast.

    The usual noisy MRI without contrast took place and I emerged out of the machine, expecting the contrast to be given. Instead I was told I could go home. I asked about the contrast and the reply was “our scanner is so good you don’t need contrast, the image is just as good without it”. I began to smell a rat and asked why it was not being done, he mumbled something about “different protocol”.

    I take it that, the place being empty if a Sunday afternoon, there was nobody around qualified to administer the contrast. So much for efficiency and speeding things up for me. Prof will be furious, I’m furious at the repeated inefficiencies of half-fine jobs at private hospitals. That will be another morning or afternoon there, VHI will no doubt be forking out even more than they would have originally.





  • Falling is terrifying, especially when you are on your own. My first major fall that heralded in the abrupt onset of my current progressive disease was early March. I had been in Dundrum SC that day and was finding it difficult to use the escalators and nearly took a toss on one of them. Kind of wondered was I imagining my balance had suddenly gone really pear-shaped.

    Was wobbly rest of day, couldn’t really figure out why, was a bit worried though, in fact quite concerned. What was I to do about it? Who was I to say it do? What could I do about it?

    In the evening I sat down, had a takeaway, a glass of wine, watched TV, trying to forget about the day I had and my underlying suspicions. Seemed fine, got up to go to bed, next thing saw floor coming up to meet my face, heard a great big crack, and then nothing, blankness. I became conscious again, like waking up after surgery, and realised I’d had a fall & blackout. Tried to move my hands and legs, couldn’t even move a finger. Thought I must have broken my neck and become paralysed and that was going to be the end of me. I had no feeling anywhere.

    After some time passed, I tried moving my limbs again and I could moving them but not usefully to get myself up. Still, I knew my spinal cord was at least intact and that rest might help and I decided I had hope if I just relaxed for a while and get some power back. After an hour or two I had enough power to crawl to the bedroom, and saw I had left a considerable large complex bloodstain the exact shape of Donegal, it’s peninsulas and islands 🤣

    After a good sleep I got myself to Blackrock ED, as I had the insurance, and there had been numerous warnings broadcast to keep away from public EDs. It was crazy busy in Blackrock, and as I was extremely unsteady, dropping things, and having very bad double vision, they admitted me, but end result was they couldn’t follow me up. General consultant said I’d be better off at SVUH but he hadn’t the ability to refer me there and I’d have to go through my GP, and the latter did not know how to use Neurolink to connect with Prof Tubridy, in fact he said he couldn’t see a method of referring me, but I could go private somewhere else.

    Long shot was I got GP to print a referral and I sent it in registered post and got to see the Prof that way.

    But those falls can be multi factorial, I’ve had my foot catching numerous times, legs simply giving way, and had a few episodes of fainting which has been identified as my nervous system being unable to regulate blood pressure mostly either when I stand up or am standing in one place for a while. The drop in BP is a rapid 20+ systolic so no surprise at my blacking out occasionally.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1 SnapCracklePop91


    Hi all 👋🏼

    First post here and hope that everyone is feeling well.

    I'm just wondering has anyone attended Neurology in Tallaght hospital? I went to my GP about 9 weeks ago with numbness in my right hand, GP seemed to indicate that MS might be the cause and sent a referral for me. Does anyone have any experience in Tallaght and any idea on what the current public waiting lists for Neurology are like?

    Thanks so much 🙂



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,155 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    Sorry I can’t help . It was my GP who first mentioned MS . My wife at the time had private insurance in her job so i was private until I was diagnosed . It seemed to be the Lumbar puncture that clinched my diagnosis. That was in SVU .





  • I can only tell you about SVUH. Had decades of on and off numbness in limbs, completely ignored by doctors as I had other stuff going on, so it’s go to a pretty advanced and obvious stage now. I was let down by the private “system”, I pressed my GP for a referral to SVUH as I live in Milltown, 10 days after referral letter sent in by registered post I got an appointment letter direct for the MS Clinic for 7 weeks later. It had been marked “urgent”. I’ve heard in general of neurology appointments typically taking 6 to 14 months, and can be as bad or worse in private, although Prof Hardiman had offered me an appointment exact same date as SVUH!





  • I sent an email to Blackrock questioning why I didn’t get contrast when Prof Tubridy had very specifically requested it. They responded in some detail, and explain they consider it unnecessary and potentially toxic, and that they don’t care who requests it, they won’t do it, however they will repeat if he comes back to them insisting on it.



  • Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 2,259 Mod ✭✭✭✭Nigel Fairservice


    I get dye all the time in Cork University Hospital. Never heard it could be considered potentially toxic.



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  • They said in a long email from the clinical MRI specialist that it builds up in body and causes long term damage… I’ll get a screenshot of the conclusion paragraph…




  • Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 2,259 Mod ✭✭✭✭Nigel Fairservice


    I suppose there's risks with all drugs. I imagine if it was totally unsafe they just wouldn't use it at all.





  • I know my doc is going to request it be repeated with the contrast, at least this one time of not so much down the road. I think it might be riskier for people to undergo gadolinium injection for years on end. I’m 62 and this will be my first and maybe only injection with it as protocol to commence me on treatment.

    I have less than perfect kidney function, it’s ok, but maybe they see that the contrast is better avoided in my case if possible.





  • Got an email from Blackrock today in response to my reply about why they hardly ever do MRI with contrast “as per Beaumont protocol”. I had explained that this would be a first ever gadolinium injection toon to highlight active areas as per protocol before starting Ocrevus, if disease is accumulated rather than active I don’t qualify for treatment. They had thought I had been through half a lifetime of MRIs with contrast, also they had believed that a Blackrock doctor had made the referral, when that doctor declined to follow me up. They said a radiologist has looked at Sunday’s MRI and the lesions look the same as a previous one I had in-patient 3 months ago.

    However, they said after my explanation they have taken note that it might be appropriate to do a gadolinium enhanced scan as a once off, so I’m to come in tomorrow afternoon when they will do it.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,498 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Crikey, recode, you've been through the mill.





  • Prof Tubs shook his head in almost disbelief, and said “right we have to get right on with doing something about it all now”. I’ve heard far worse stuff happening other people, usually in relation to delayed cancer diagnoses.

    As happens that poor girl had a brain tumour of a type that doesn’t really respond to treatment, but it took a trip to Dubrovnik to happen to find out her diagnosis. She was falling over, and her worsening symptoms ignored by doctors in Ireland.





  • Well if it rains it pours. Just about to go into Blackrock for contrast, SVUH doctor from neurology team phoned me just now, thought it was a hoax at first. They got a very worrying report from my scan… but surprisingly to do with my uterus, and I’m being urgently referred to gynaecology. Hyperplasia of endometrium, there’s only one safe treatment for that as cancer is often buried within, so it’s very likely going to be more surgery in the form of hysterectomy.





  • Wishing to attend the MS Conference in September in Athlone on Sat 16th September, I phone the Radisson quoting MS Ireland booking rates. Alas the only 6 accessible rooms were not available to me and I was told by the very sympathetic nice girl on reception that sadly nothing at all was available for my stay. She had said MS Ireland booked the rooms for Thursday and Friday but strangely not Saturday, when the seminars and gala dinner would take place.

    All the rooms are bath only, no walk-in shower, except for those 6. We are a strange country where many of our hotels are focussed on baths only. It’s been sone time since I’ve been able to safely get out of a bath, and there’s no possibility of that now, though I’m only 62. There’s plenty of people, young and old, can’t easily use baths. Actually if you use a simple B&B you are more likely to have a shower and at most a short doable stairs or maybe on ground level.

    Anyway I got back online and managed to book a room with inaccessible bath for the two nights at a costly price, but at least I get to attend. I will bring flannels to wash myself.

    The lack of accessibility in major modern hotels drives me mad. I formerly brought my late elderly mother, a wheelchair user, all over Europe, New York etc, never had a problem with accessibility. That was back to 2009 when she died after a short illness aged 89, her last foreign trip to Switzerland where an old city building had been converted to be fully accessible.





  • Has anybody been affected by autonomic disorder, especially the regulation of blood pressure?

    I’m plagued by it, and if I stand still, as in a queue, for more than a couple of minutes I have a tendency to get presyncope, and and I have passed out and fallen down on the floor several times. My GP tested me for orthostatic hypotension and said I’ve a marked tendency to it.

    Feeling especially exhausted these times, went to check my own BP there a few minutes ago, 144/90 sitting, and dropped quickly to 119/89 when I stood up. That’s a 25 systolic fall, no surprise I start to grey out almost every time I stand up. I find it about the most generally disabling of all symptoms.

    Also my fasting blood glucose has been shown by paramedics attending me once to be 2 mmol/L which is quite hypo.

    Has anybody found any way to cope with the BP especially, at least eating regularly can deal with blood glucose levels?



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  • Got follow up appt at SVUH MS Clinic for 29th November, have to have the endometrial hyperplasia fully investigated & treated ahead of that. It’s put a spanner in the works as they cannot give any form of immune suppression without eliminating as far as possible the question mark over potential underlying malignancy, even a low grade smouldering carcinoma could turn into invasive cancer if immune system is suppressed.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 60,253 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gremlinertia


    I can't imagine what you've been going through. I hope fervently that everything that happens medically in future is positive and that you have someone to push for your latest issue to be dealt with sooner

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on




  • I’m living on my own, very much a one-person operation, although very sympathetic cousins & friends. Yesterday I was greying out all the time, BP plummeting by 55 systolic immediately upon standing up, and my GP can only advise me to rise slowly, but that doesn’t help as it pretty much always goes to grey out on a minute or two anyway. Last night I was getting chest pain in addition, just a vague pressure in chest now.

    Hate presenting to ED, you need to be at the top of your form to cope with that 🤣🤣 Years ago I’d be given a trolley when the gut issues arose, now anyone under 80, now matter in what pain, gets turfed off ambulance trolley to a hard chair to wait 8 hours. The trolleys are all occupied by people in the 90s at the end of their lives, that’s the reality of us all living longer and not having enough facilities to cope.





  • Acute heart injury ruled out as per blood troponin, so got to go home. Doctor there said my GP has got to get my high supine BP under control, it’s peaking in the 180s, as it’s showing early damage on kidney function, and will lead to early heart failure & stroke if not controlled. To get echocardiogram to check any muscular changes that might be related to the enormous variance in BP from supine to standing & advice from my cardiologist. Recommended to get every vaccine going as I may be at top risk category.

    Also told never to stand in a queue to prevent fainting episodes. I got a small long-range mobility scooter delivered today.



  • Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭Beefcake82


    Hi,

    I've been referred to neurology for investigation for suspected MS, 1 of my aunts has it in a benign form and with my symptoms my gp wants me to be checked out.

    Can someone explain to me what the process is for these sort of investigations please.





  • MRI of brain and spine, these take about an hour of lying still in a capsule and don’t use any form of radiation. A spinal tap is very often done to check for oligoclonal bands in the CSF fluid drained off. Most people with MS have this finding and it greatly supports diagnosis. I found that otherwise very safe test uncomfortable when a tiny nerve branch was touched, giving rise to sharp nerve pain down leg. Locally it doesn’t really hurt spinal area, as local anaesthetic is introduced. Sedation can be used. Some people have little or no bother with test.

    There is no one definitive test, yet, for MS. You can have some normal looking results and have the disease. Or the positive looking results may be due to another condition. Along with reporting of symptoms, testing of reflexes and neurological signs, the neurologist can start to form a diagnosis.

    But be warned, it often takes months, can be a very frustrating process where you don’t know where you stand, and repeat scans for a neurologist to come to a conclusion strong enough to start treatment, and as it’s immune suppressive you must be deemed healthy enough to endure it. It’s calculating risk versus benefit.

    Before a doctor does this evaluation they want to rule out well-known causes of neuropathy with very similar symptoms & signs, eg low Vitamin B12, diabetes, thyroid disease and a lot more. HIV testing is always part of this too, will be covered in the panel of bloods. MS itself does not show up on any current blood tests, it’s just to eliminate causes that have a different management approach and for which immune suppression could be most inappropriate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭Beefcake82


    Thanks for this outline, have a better idea what to expect. For myself i have type 2 diabetes (medication controlled) and have had b12 issues which i get injections from gp for. I have been having random hand and foot tremors along with memory issues combined with family history which is why i have been referred. There was talk about possibility of parkinsons but was leaning more towards MS due to my aunts diagnosis.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on




  • Has anyone had this symptom, I believe quite common. Getting strong sudden urges to pass urine, wakes me up throughout the night, only to pass very little urine to gain relief for maybe an hour. Having constant dreams of having to pre and having to fund places to do so.





  • Plans to start treatment in November have kind of been scuppered. Later this month I have to get biopsied for potential cervical cancer as MRI & the HPV tests combined through up suspicions. Easy enough to treat early cancer with a hysterectomy as it is a slow grower and takes its time to be invasive. But on a visit to ED when I was very dizzy and had chest pressure/pain, the doctor ruled out acute heart issue via no raised troponin, but he did remark at the extreme variation in BP, and not so great kidney function, and told me to go back to my GP and ask him to order an echocardiogram with follow up by a cardiologist, as only that way could a chronic heart issue be thrown up. He agreed that Dysautonomia is part of it, but suspected there might also be an issue with my heart itself playing a role.

    The Gynae team asked for a copy of the echo report, and of course I need it for the MS Clinic later, so I asked the Beacon to send me & my GP copies of the report sooner than I get to see the cardiologist. Have had normal echos before, done for a different reason, but when I opened the envelope my heart sank at the list of defects which would account somewhat for my tendency to black out. Valve stuff can be fixed satisfactorily if not too much remodelling with scar tissue has taken place. Seems I might have had rheumatic fever or an immune process doing a little bit of damage. Have posted copies of the report, but I’m afraid they will baulk at giving me Ocrevus as your heart needs to be in decent shape for that. So many obstacles, one after the next.



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  • Really enjoyed the MS Conference in Athlone, seminars very very insightful.



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