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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    The thing about Frawley was that he was brought to NZ as a centre and had to fill in for Harry Byrne when injured. Whatever he did in NZ in that role is what got him into Farrells good books, not anything we saw him do.

    Harry Byrne was a big prospect and had a lot of potential. Remember Leinster we’re looking to start him in the HEC before he got his first official call-up. I’d say himself and Crowley are pretty comparable in terms of how Farrell treated them. Byrne had been in a few camps as an extra over the course of a season or so based on his potential. Again, he showed enough for Farrell to think he might have a future and given our situation at 10 we needed that. Injury and the impact that has had on his confidence have screwed all of that up.



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,122 ✭✭✭fitz


    I think that's pretty much spot on. I also think that the way the team has developed over the last couple of years has made us less dependent on Sexton at 10. With the way our game plan and structure has worked the last 2 years, bringing Byrne back in was an easier decision to make I'd say.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    looks like he was part of WC plans

    It's literally the exact opposite of that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Ross has also done a good job in those appearances he’s had. He has absolutely paid back the faith the coaches placed in him.



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,122 ✭✭✭fitz


    Totally agree. I just think the success we've had moving away from a game that was more reliant on one of the world's best players being at 10 also helped open the door for him to get that opportunity. He grabbed it with both hands.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    v ITA Sat 8pm. Team announced Thursday

    Hope Crowley starts v Italy and Samoa.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    And that's all fine, but if Healy's lack of performance and consistency is going to be mentioned, it seems to me that applies to HB and Frawley too.

    And in particular, with regards the Frawley situation (and even Jake Flannery getting time at 10 in the EI tour), I can absolutely understand why Healy may feel hard done by.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Very much looking forward to the match this weekend. Team selection should be interesting, hard to guess but I think we'll see a strong enough 23.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭Shehal


    I wouldnt be surprised if Crowley, Byrne, Frawley get a start each.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    I just dont see any need to give Frawley a start at 10.

    Farrell will bring 3 OHs and prob 4 Centres. I hope the 4th is McCloskey.


    Wonder when/if SMcC will get a start...maybe v Samoa?

    Dropped after 6N Italy (13.Bundee Atsea) game.


    Thought his performance v SA was significant. Albeit he went off injured after 26mins.

    Ireland were getting pummelled and he held up and turned over SA at least twice. Also did good work in fighting for gainline to make bad ball presentable.

    To my mind he's the best equipped to deal with the Boks blitz and their powerful direct running.


    Spoilt for choice at 12 really.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Byrne starting V England before the last World cup in 2019 did not work out well for him.

    Essentially scuppered his chances of making the squad.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    ireland, Byrne and England are much different propositions today.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,102 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    England to announce their 33 on Monday, Springboks on Tuesday.

    France naming their 33 on the 21st after two warm up games.

    If we are still playing with guys who don't get onto the final squad by the 3rd game, then we aren't being ruthless enough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,239 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    he was definitely being mentioned in the media regarding going to NZ. i didnt think it was realistic but he was being mentioned



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,069 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Jesus but I hate these warm-up matches. I'd sooner watch Ireland lose ten times to the All Blacks than go through 3 of these games looking through my fingers.

    I fully understand that they are vital for tournament preparation, but I'm old enough such that Geordan Murphy and David Wallace are still vivid memories for me.

    Hate them.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    If we are still playing with guys who don't get onto the final squad by the 3rd game, then we aren't being ruthless enough.

    thats makes no sense.

    its reported that the squad will not be named until after the samoa game, so it gives all players on the cusp of the squad every opportunity to impress before the final 33 are named. i see zero reasons youd cut the squad before the cut off date of 1st September.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,102 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    except for the same reasons all the other squads have been named by then, the final warm up game is just using players from the final squad.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    i can see it making sense for those teams traveling long distances ie the rugby championship teams., who are playing warm up games in the northern hemisphere, from a purely logistic pov

    Wales wont name their squad until after their final game.

    Italy havent said when they will, but their final game is the 12th august so unlikely to be named before that.

    Scotland havent said when they will announce.

    England are going very early with their announcement on 7th August, but this is absolutely required because they have called in every man and his dog into squads so far (the guts of 60 players)

    France are announcing before their final game.

    ireland are a very settled side, so by the time teh samoa game comes around i would imagine we're down to 1 or 2 players being borderline. And that being said, the only report of the side being named after the samoa game is Neil Tracey. The IRFU official statement simply said late august.

    I dont see any reason at all why it would be more beneficial for the final 33 man squad to travel to france for the samoa game, other than a cost saving measure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭Shehal



    Tbh I don't really care what these nations are doing, we should be doing what works for us and our squad. And at the end of the day we are the best team on the planet so maybe these countries should be looking at what we are doing rather than the other way round ;)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Except Ireland were a ragged mess at that stage, sadly instead of acknowledging this the fans and media just scapegoated the 10 and told themselves it will all be rosey once Sexton returns

    ...

    It was just as bad when he returned.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,102 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    yes, Irelands record in the world cup is the bestest ever.


    to be honest 99% of this squad was picked after the 6 nations. so onto the quarterfinal sh!tshow, we go.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    As much as we like to talk about ****, what the fans and the media think a month before the world cup really doesn't matter much!

    Besides Sexton was around for the 6N that year which was just as much a problem. The team just got caught out and there was limited time to change it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭Shehal


    But the fact you can only use Ireland's WC record to have a go shows just how good this squad is.

    The 6N where Ireland won it in the most dominant fashion any side has won it for 20 years right, that one? I dont really see how that equals a QF **** show but each to there own.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,069 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The best thing that happened to Ireland in this cycle is the Sexton ban.

    Byrne and Crowley will just have to get on with it and figure it out. But after the very good seasons they had I'm not concerned.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I suspect most of the squad was picked after they'd gone a season unbeaten alright yeah. Especially given this is the first squad meetup since then...



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Tbh it doesnt matter much at any stage, at least not in the real world. It was a problem and I was shouting that from the roof tops but the media didnt seem to care. I just found it interesting how when Carty, Carbery or Byrne made the exact same issue they were castrated but if Sexton made the same error it was the teams fault. Like when I remember the Japan game the whole lose seemed to be blamed on Carty but when you look at the game I cant really see where he put a foot wrong other than simply not being Sexton. Im not having a go at Sexton what I'm getting at is the issues in that side were far bigger than who was playing at 10 and that was only recognised after Ireland were annihilated by the AB's in the QF with Sexton in the team. Like you said the issues were Ireland didnt evolve and were punished, any rugby fan with any knowledge of the game could see that but sadly the average fan reads utter garbage written by the rugby media who just want headlines and to sensationalise everything so sadly this wasnt picked up on.

    We can see now when the team is happy and playing well the issues at 10 are mitigated, when Byrne came on after 35 minutes against France the biggest compliment you could possibly give Byrne is for the rest of that game no one was lemanting the loss of Sexton.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    the Japan game the whole lose seemed to be blamed on Carty

    This is a myth, no one ever blamed Carty.

    It was invented about two years later as a strawman for why Carty wasn't being picked for Ireland.

    I don't think Byrne got the blame for the English game either, but equally he didn't give himself much chance of a call up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Mr Disco




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    I guess we are talking about Ross Byrne

    He ran the Leinster team for the major games and got them to the final of European rugby.

    He played a significant part in a Grand Slam.

    If you say that's not very good I would hate to see your review of Crowley



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I'd like to see McCloskey go too tbh, and even with Aki being called back in ahead of him, it's still probably his best season in a green shirt. I thought he was very good against France in the 6 Nations, especially defensively.



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