Barbie (2023)

santana75 · 29-07-2023 8:53pm

Just back from the cinema and I found it a tough slog tbh. I put all the hype and everything else aside and judged the film on its own merits, and I thought it was just a poor film. It felt like they were making it up as they went along, like a lot of it was improvised. Now maybe I'm wrong about that and everyone stuck to the script but for me it felt like improv night at the ha'penny inn and a lot of the scenes fell flat. I think Margot Robbie is great, she was off the scale in Babylon and she does well here too. Ryan gosling steals the film and his power ballad number at the end saves the film from being a complete write off. A female friend went aswell and afterwards she made an interesting comment.....she thought the film overall was a bit meh but she said that if a bloke was to make the opposite film, one that lampoon's feminism, there would be absolute war. There would be people getting cancelled, their would be studios being boycotted until heads roll, there would be crying, there would be outrage. And I suspect she's 100% spot on.

Pwindedd · 29-07-2023 9:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913494#Comment_120913494

I always thought that. Especially when EM was in the first season of Sex Education. Very similar facially.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 29-07-2023 9:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913812#Comment_120913812

The opposite of Barbie is not a film lampooning feminism. The Kens want a patriarchy, that's not the same as feminism.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 29-07-2023 9:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913578#Comment_120913578

Teen Titans Go To The Movies is one of the funniest films I've ever seen. It's actually kinda comparable with Barbie as it's very meta and pokes fun at itself as much as anything.

AndrewJRenko · 29-07-2023 10:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120911134#Comment_120911134

It did drag a bit. I'd say they could have cut ninety minutes and still maintained the overall fun and message, just with a faster pace.

Still, a good movie, with lots of great visual gags that will stand the test of time. Definitely not for kids, and probably not for most teens.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 29-07-2023 10:35pm

I see Mattel are trying to launch a whole cinematic universe now. Lena Dunham is directing a Polly Pocket film apparently. Shows a complete lack of awareness of what's actually happened with Barbie, I think.

pixelburp · 30-07-2023 5:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914168#Comment_120914168

Never underestimate Hollywood's ability to learn the wrong lessons from a surprise hit.

People like Barbie? Quick, we need an Uno movie!!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 30-07-2023 7:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914462#Comment_120914462

You joke but there's a list of 14 projects in development and I think Uno was one of them.

eightieschewbaccy · 30-07-2023 7:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914144#Comment_120914144

I was somewhat surprised that my 12 year old niece loved it but I think she has my cynical sense of humour. 🤣

JP Liz V1 · 30-07-2023 5:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914168#Comment_120914168

Personally I think it should be left alone as a once off, no need for sequels or spin offs or co universe films

I think when a Barbie movie was first announced everyone was probably like seriously WTF but Margot and Greta have delivered an iconic fun heartfelt film that will become a cult classic, surpassing everyone's expectations

I was maybe expected an Elle Woods, Regina George and Cher cameos 😄

titan18 · 30-07-2023 10:15pm

Gosling as Ken and his scenes be Liu's Ken were the best parts of it tbh. Rest of it was ok with the message lacking any real subtlety or nuance tbf. Robbie is great in her stuff too tbf but feels like there was more to be given and got into it there and they didn't do it.

titan18 · 30-07-2023 10:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913916#Comment_120913916

Tbf the end of the film ends with the Barbie's putting Ken's back in their place and giving them some throwaway positions.

Imagine a film like this that starts with the men in power, the women breakout and take over only to get put back down by having them fight each other and then get given some throwaway positions to appease them. That probably does end up exactly like the previous poster said.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 30-07-2023 10:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918527#Comment_120918527

I don't have to imagine that because it's a reflection of the real world. Except women aren't trying to take absolute power like the Kens were. It honestly baffles me that people don't see that's what was being portrayed with the Barbies at the end. And that people can see how ridiculous the Kens all look behaving that way, but can't see how if the roles were actually reversed it would appear surprisingly normal for women to be portrayed that way.

They even showed it in the real world when Barbie asked why there were no women in the boardroom and Will Ferrell's character told her that they had a female CEO in the 90s so it's fine.

Even turning the Kens against eachother is a reflection of how women have historically been socialised to see eachother as competition. If we're too busy trying to bring the other women in the room down we won't be able to work together to address the real issues.

Even how the Kens are portrayed as accessories to the Barbies is how women were portrayed in films for years. Only existing as a prop for the male leads, either to badger him into growing up, or die so he can have a revenge story, or as a love interest who doesn't exist if the man isn't on screen talking to her. Ken literally says he only matters when Barbie is looking at him.

So yeah, there's no need to imagine a reversal of the Barbies/Kens dynamic because a) it's been on our screens repeatedly for decades, and b) it's how the real world still works.

suvigirl · 30-07-2023 10:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918604#Comment_120918604

It is literally just men that I have spoken with that just don't seem to get it at all.

Like every woman immediately sees the mirror image of real life and very few of the men seem to. It's shocking actually!

titan18 · 30-07-2023 10:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918604#Comment_120918604

That's great and all but that's not really what the original poster said. They said that their female friend didn't think a reversed gender version of those film would get made without a ton of controversy, and that's probably true.

I couldn't see a Ken film where all the Ken's live in Kendom and Barbie tries to topple the patriarchy there only to be put down and given some low level position not being met with a ton of controversy, can you?

Ignoring that the film is grand (about a 7/10 imo) with Gosling's performance being the best part. I honestly think it missed a bit not being a bit longer and giving Robbie or some of the other Barbies more to do. Despite this being a woman led and directed film, Cera as Allan got more time on screen than some of the more notable background Barbies.

JP Liz V1 · 30-07-2023 11:09pm

I noticed that Annie Mumolo (Writer Bridesmaids) and Emerald Fennell (Writer Director Promising Young Woman) are briefly in this, cameos

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 30-07-2023 11:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918722#Comment_120918722

Fennell played Midge, didn't she? I believe there's some deleted scenes that featured her more.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 30-07-2023 11:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918692#Comment_120918692

You couldn't make a gender flipped version of this because it would then cease to be satirical or parody. Which is the point I'm making. So if someone made that film it would be a completely different thing and anyone who wanted to make that film would probably be quite deserving of any criticism that came their way, or at the very least have their motivations severely questioned.

titan18 · 30-07-2023 11:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918744#Comment_120918744

Ya, the message would obviously be different (and horrific) but it's still the same film just reversed gender wise and lampooning feminism which is what the original poster said.

JP Liz V1 · 30-07-2023 11:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918733#Comment_120918733

The pregnant Barbie?

I think Ken and Barbie spoke to Annie's character at the school

pixelburp · 31-07-2023 7:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918754#Comment_120918754

But as said, reversing doesn't work because the intent is clearly to poke fun at a lopsided power structure; that no longer works if the roles are reversed. Clearly feminism isn't trying to take over the summit, despite what some people might cry. It's no different to where comedy that "punches down" doesn't really exist - we tend to mock and criticise those who are above us along the pecking order. You can say "if we flipped the genders it wouldn't be funny", but the only reason a work of fiction would do that in the first place was if there was a Matriarchy was in charge instead - but there isn't, so it's a bit of a case of if my granny had wheels scenario...

I think there's a value in flipping genders with solid tropes and story templates, because you can bring a completely different energy to a story if it's implemented right; I always think that a 12 Angry Women adaptation would be very interesting if someone sufficiently talented did it; because playing off all the various energies and clichés of female competition, rivalry and so on would be a much different, but still fascinating beast compared with the macho, testosterone stand off of the original.

cgcsb · 31-07-2023 8:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918527#Comment_120918527

I'd have liked an ending where instead of barbie dominance, margot done a 'wait thats not right kens should have equality and their own houses and cars and jobs because we're better than the real world and all that'. But the film you suggest in which male dominance triumphs is also most films ever made. Some good examples of what you say include the James Bond films. The older James Bonds even infantilized the female characters and made Bond a disciplinarian(often physically) as well as a sexual dominant, quite creepy really. Barbie was nowhere near that abusive to Ken, she took him for granted, that's about the extent of it.

I see sheep · 31-07-2023 8:13am

I saw in Friday night. It was good but dragged a bit imo. Ken/Gosling was brilliant. Some great one liners from Barbie, including the last scene.

I see sheep · 31-07-2023 8:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919200#Comment_120919200

That is what happens 🤷‍♀️

cgcsb · 31-07-2023 8:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919216#Comment_120919216

yes I'm aware but president barbie only gives the kens token roles, I mean being a perfect plastic world they should have made everything equal.

cgcsb · 31-07-2023 8:22am

I'm curious now about the trans barbie who is a doctor, did she used to be a ken?? was she a ken when she was a doctor? so many questions. There's a spin off right there.

I thought it was cute when ken said she was beautiful (although without glasses). There was also a large % of the audience who didn't seem to be aware she was trans.

AndrewJRenko · 31-07-2023 8:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919237#Comment_120919237

Is it ALL movies that you expect to have neat, happy endings now, or just this one?

cgcsb · 31-07-2023 9:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919366#Comment_120919366

I don't expect, I would have liked. And generally for this type film a slapstick comedy, I'd like that type of ending. In any case I did love Barbie and i guess they have to set it up for a sequel.

I see sheep · 31-07-2023 9:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919247#Comment_120919247

I didn't see any trans barbie, maybe you have to be looking really hard for these things to see them.

homerun_homer · 31-07-2023 9:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919247#Comment_120919247

I know one of the Barbies is trans, but I don't believe the movie was portraying any of the Barbies as being a trans Barbie. They simply cast a trans actress as a Barbie as far as I see it. I wasn't aware until a few days after when I was looking up some of the bit part cast to see who some of the less familiar cast to me were, since many bit parts are directors/writers (Emerald Fennell), singers (Dua Lipa). I then thought that others in the cast may be fan favs from other things I didn't know very well.

HerrKuehn · 31-07-2023 9:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120916998#Comment_120916998

Disagree with it being a once off, this should spawn the same level on spin offs as the MCU, at least that would be my hope. So those who cheered on the continuous comic book movies shall understand what we were complaining about. Hopefully we get Sindy moves too (equivalent to DC universe)

johnny_ultimate · 31-07-2023 9:40am

I do have to say it was quite refreshing seeing a trans woman just part of an ensemble, with no big attention drawn to the fact. Trans-specific stories are vital (especially when told by transgender creatives), but sometimes important progress is when trans actors are just there like everyone else, naturally part of the story and world :) It’s still a rare enough thing to see.

cgcsb · 31-07-2023 10:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919438#Comment_120919438

I'd say it's just that straight people tend to overlook these things that's how Hollywood had so many gay characters in early 20th Century films without much backlash from censors. LGBT people will instantly clock all the subtleties. Trans actor Hari Nef opens up about being empowered in upcoming Barbie movie • GCN

As soon as she spoke I clocked the voice but I guess these things aren't picked up by the mainstream.

cgcsb · 31-07-2023 10:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919503#Comment_120919503

Interesting, perhaps you're right, she's just a barbie played by a trans actor. I thought that when Ryan Gosling gave her the 'you're beautiful' it was meant to be an affirming thing for trans-barbies. I suppose people who are trans will walk away taking that interpretation anyway and the mainstream crowd who didn't notice will go on and there'll be no hassle from the incel crowd about it, same as when gay characters were subtle in films 50 years ago, censors didn't notice and gay people felt representation.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 31-07-2023 11:02am

Just saw a review and subsequent discussion on Letterboxd that is a bit upset that Barbie denies the hopeful truth of God, and also apparently the opening is pro abortion?

So..... lots of people taking very different things from this one.

cgcsb · 31-07-2023 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920008#Comment_120920008

I kinda got that atheist/agnostic vibe when barbie didn't need permission from her creator to live the life she wanted so I get where that's coming from. As for abortion, I'd say that's a fair stretch.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 31-07-2023 11:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120920236#Comment_120920236

I think their issue was the idea that humans only have one ending, which I guess I understand if you're someone who believes otherwise. But the abortion thing..... was it the girls smashing their dolls?

homerun_homer · 31-07-2023 1:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919833#Comment_120919833

That "you're beautiful" moment I think was a clear piss take on the teen movie, girl with the glasses isn't attractive until she take them off trope, but whether they intend that to have that extra layer to the comment I don't know. If it works for people then all the better.

fluke · 31-07-2023 2:21pm

Loved this, when I saw it with a friend on Saturday, and caught Oppenheimer on Wednesday last, which is also great.

For the first time in ages it felt like going to the movies was a big occasion, and I've been to quite a few movies this year.

Foxtrol · 31-07-2023 2:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914168#Comment_120914168

From what I can see there are many people out there showing a similar lack of awareness of what's actually happened with Barbie.

Everyone is pulling out whatever they want to see as being the key factor in the success of the movie and claiming it. Mattel is seeing it being their IP, film heads claim it down to the director, marketing companies will claim it is all the stuff they made go viral etc etc.

It is quite similar to Top Gun last year - it isn't straight forward and anyone who claims that it is is at best deluding themselves.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 31-07-2023 2:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921411#Comment_120921411

The whole Barbenheimer thing was completely organic, it seems. The idea of counter programming isn't new, so them having the same release day was a fairly standard studio decision. Everything that stemmed from that, from simple memes to crazy box office success for both, was something that is unlikely to be repeated, or created deliberately by a marketing department.

I've read since that Mattel already had this Polly Pocket thing in development, along with like 12 other toy based films. So it's not just coming off the back of Barbie's success as I thought. However I still think they're probably overestimating the interest anyone has in a slew of films based around toys. Polly Pocket certainly doesn't have the same brand status as Barbie, and Lena Dunham isn't exactly the most popular person in the world either. I can imagine the meeting just having darts thrown at a board of toys, and a board of women directors.

cgcsb · 31-07-2023 3:05pm

I can see how spin offs from Barbie would be a commercial success, like Barbie 2 in the real world or Allen or weird barbie. Not sure if Polly Pocket has the same sort of pull.

Foxtrol · 31-07-2023 3:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921526#Comment_120921526

Crazy box office success is incredibly hard to repeat, which is why it is so impressive when the very few actually do it. If it was as easy as many claim it to be then every movie would be a box office smash.

Mattel wouldn't be doing their job if they weren't looking at ways to monetize their IP, it is hardly a new idea to turn toys that have been cartoons into live action.

It is good old fashioned clickbait news. Them wanting to create a universe and significantly investing in actually doing it are completely different things. It would be incredibly naive for anyone to think that Mattel where going to shut down their film department/division after Barbie.

JP Liz V1 · 31-07-2023 5:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919586#Comment_120919586

I didn't know there was a trans actor in it or a trans barbie character 🙈 as you said it was refreshing no attention drawn, well I didn't know

metaoblivia · 31-07-2023 8:06pm

Saw this film last weekend as part of a Barbenheimer double feature. I did Barbie first. I loved going in and seeing so many people dressed up for the occasion. There's something about sharing a cinematic moment with other people - complete strangers - that's really fun. I haven't seen the theater like that since before COVID, so it felt special. And I had my pink top on too. It helped create a feeling of comraderie.

Anyway, the movie was fun. I loved the sets and costuming - I hope that gets some regonition at the awards shows next year. There were good laughs. Ryan Gosling was hilarious but Margot Robbie also did a damn good job. I really like the role reversal aspect of the movie that's been somewhat hotly debated, even on this thread! I thought it was clever, and it's been interesting to see who that's worked for and who really disliked it.

The speech and the way they ended up saving the Barbies from the Ken-patriarchy was the only thing that threw me off a bit. The speech was great but it was a bit on the nose for me, and then I couldn't help thinking that the rescue mission was a little convoluted. It just took me out of the world for a bit while I wondered about the dynamics of how that might actually work.

But overall, a really fun movie and definitely worth seeing.

B.A._Baracus · 02-08-2023 5:56am

Saw it last night with the misses and it was a full house pretty much. Pre-covid levels as mentioned above but it was 95% women in the audience haha.

Was pretty decent. Fair play to Greta, her co writer and Mattel I guess. Everyone involved could have just put together another run of the mill movie where Barbie comes to life or something and has to find her love Ken.

cgcsb · 02-08-2023 9:51am

Hope it gets some awards

JP Liz V1 · 02-08-2023 2:35pm

I did laugh everytime Ken said patriarchy but I was laughing lots at Ken most times

I won't do a deep dive freudian meaning analysis of the film 😄

It was an enjoyable comedy which exceeded my expectations given the subject matter

JP Liz V1 · 02-08-2023 2:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120929173#Comment_120929173

I can definitely see Greta, Margot, Ryan and America and the film getting Golden Globe nominations even possible wins

I'd say Greta is a shoe in for best director Oscar nomination also

Also song, screenplay, set design and costume design, cinematography etc.,

StringerBell · 02-08-2023 2:40pm

Saw it last night with missus, she felt it was okay to good, I thought meh to okay.

Some parts were quite good, some funny moments of course but was definitely ready for it to end when it came. The last bit with the creator and Barbie in particular dragged on a bit for me but I think I was just kinda done at that stage.

Audience was 90% female, mixture of young girls and women 40s - 60s who seemed to enjoy it.

The overall aesthetic was good, set pieces and that. Probably would have been one of those I should have waited to watch at home in all honesty.

Barbie (2023)

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