Sex for free rent: Why is this so wrong between consenting adults?

Goldengirl · 02-08-2023 5:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931235#Comment_120931235

I am thinking you are taking the proverbial here...

Jequ0n · 02-08-2023 5:59pm

Ah another outcry about abuse and coercion. Time to regulate and ban anything that could be deemed improper or fun.

02-08-2023 6:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931478#Comment_120931478

Ya, we should. Thanks for the contribution

02-08-2023 6:01pm

Consenting to me is when you meet in a real life situation or on Tinder (etc) and negotiate romantic/sexual/social contact on basic of being on about the same footing. I know from time immemorial people have had monetary contracts for sexual activity, but these times we are more cogniscent of situations where there is an imbalance of power.

Goldengirl · 02-08-2023 6:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931432#Comment_120931432

Yeah.. Women's refuges are full of women and children who have come off the worst in " arrangements" such as you are describing.. 🙄

Goldengirl · 02-08-2023 6:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931478#Comment_120931478

Fun for who exactly?

nachouser · 02-08-2023 6:27pm

As usual they're overthinking it. Just hang around outside a homeless shelter on the look-out for someone who's not too far gone. Back to yours for a quick shower and the promise of a hot meal and bob's your uncle.

/s

amacca · 02-08-2023 6:32pm

Its clearly wrong if people aren't on an equal footing or just as free to say no as to say yes Id venture

If there was an abundance of places to rent at a reasonable rate and we are not talking about naïve, young or vulnerable people and someone wants to pay or charge rent via sex then its a bit seedy but you could see an argument for accepting it, but how can you ensure that's the case at any time? it would aways be abused.....

If there wasn't a shortage of places to rent or it wasn't so expensive would you have people suggesting sex for a roof over your head?

growleaves · 02-08-2023 6:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931434#Comment_120931434

Food, shelter and heat are necessities though.

Its one thing if you've bought your lover an expensive necklace. Its shading over into different territory if someone's primary residence is being paid for with sex.

Given that there's an accommodation crisis with emergency situations where people are being stuck for somewhere to live, it is so ripe for abuse if you allow it to happen.

growleaves · 02-08-2023 6:57pm

'If, however, it is a clear agreement from the outset between one consenting adult, a landlord, and another consenting adult, the prospective tenant, to give sexual services in return for free rent, then the State has no business in that business transaction between two consenting adults.'

Well the State begs to differ.

You can't sell yourself into slavery. You can't rescind your labour rights in a deal you made with an employer. Your rights can be enforced for you against your will by a judge if it comes to that.

You can write anything you like in a contract but the contracts only means what a court rules it means. The court will just tell you the parts of the contract it deems illegal are non-binding.

Overheal · 02-08-2023 7:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931699#Comment_120931699

Reminds me of racial covenants in the states, too. Like, yes, technically you can volunteer to agree to not sell your home to someone of another race, but the supreme court maintains that the contract is legally non binding.

02-08-2023 7:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931159#Comment_120931159

But you're not in such a position if you don't want to be. If you are, it's a crime and you should report it. This idea that people don't have choices is more disempowerment of themselves. We all have choices - always. Some require immense courage, but its short supply does not negate the fact that we still have choices. Always. Or, as Victor Frankle famously put it about his time in Auschwitz:

“Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms—to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.”

“Forces beyond your control can take away everything you possess except one thing, your freedom to choose how you will respond to the situation.”

It's bad enough for victims that they are weak at the moment. It's infinitely worse for them to feed their victimhood with a sense of inevitability, of powerlessness, when in reality they, we, all have the power to make choices to change our respective lives.

pjohnson · 02-08-2023 7:50pm

I knew boards had a large chunk of landlords but didnt expect any of them to actually post they were ok with this set up.

Cant see how any decent person sees this as acceptable.

02-08-2023 7:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931263#Comment_120931263

You can. Supply and demand. Let the market decide. Of course, in the real world it's all far more subtle than that. If you're CEO of a corporation or in any power position, you wouldn't have to be so crass about things.

02-08-2023 7:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931413#Comment_120931413

Maybe he might think that was a decent offer if he gets free rent? Maybe he might get immense personal satisfaction from making you happy? if he doesn't like it, he doesn't have to sign up to it. If it's by consent and he signs up to it, I don't see any issue.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 02-08-2023 8:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931447#Comment_120931447

That's my point - it's coercion if the renter isn't entirely happy with the deal but feels forced to accept it anyway. And I've already highlighted why that may be the case and the dangers of accepting such an agreement.

If the landlord wants to **** the tenant, they should just gi ahead and ask. And if they get a 'no' then any orher offet involvong sex is coercion.

Furze99 · 02-08-2023 8:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931884#Comment_120931884

It's not a cut & dried situation, human nature and human relationships are complex. Yes it's easy to condemn and possibly legislate against lecherous male landlords preying on young perhaps immigrant women. But not so easy to condemn renters, whether women or men from openly proposing such an arrangement and being the willing instigators. You can't have one law for one person and another law for the other.

Emblematic · 02-08-2023 8:02pm

Has been going on a while. This from a little over a year ago.

Patrycja has until the end of this month to find a new home for herself and her son. She works two jobs and has been on a harrowing search for months. The lowest point came when a prospective landlord asked her for sex.

"One man called me and said he has a house in Blanchardstown, and we can meet once a month for a quick something and he will sign the documents for HAP and I can live there."

Patrycja broke down in tears when she described the impact of the landlord's proposition.

"We are human and we have rights. Everyone is supposed to respect us, not use our bad situation."

Like many others struggling to find a rental property, Patrycja is running out of options.

Link to article [here].

Boards discussion about it [here].

Jequ0n · 02-08-2023 8:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931571#Comment_120931571

The 2 parties who agree on rent relief. Not every situation is an abusive horror story. People always have a choice and don’t have to take it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931934#Comment_120931934

It’s interesting that you decided to leave out the final 2 paragraphs in which she stated that she did not want to leave Ireland and return to her home country. Again, we all make choices.

JP Liz V1 · 02-08-2023 8:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058307704/sex-for-free-rent-why-is-this-so-wrong-between-consenting-adults

Would this count as prostitution which is illegal here or has laws changed?

Imho it's wrong and these landlords are dirty leeches

TooTired123 · 02-08-2023 8:46pm

I think that a lot of people would be very shocked if they knew the extent of how sexual intercourse is quite casually traded. It always was. My mother is 89 and she said it was always the same.

Only this week I heard a very long tale of woe concerning a cleaner agreeing to have intercourse with a home owner for an extra €30 every week.

That continued for around a year. The sex got ever more degrading after about 8 months until eventually she said she was neither going to clean nor go to bed with him. He’s demanded €900 back?!? claiming she wasn’t doing the cleaning properly?! When she refused he sent her photos he’d taken surreptitiously. Luckily enough she’d taken her own photos. They’re in a silent truce at the moment.

Emblematic · 02-08-2023 8:59pm

Sketch from the UK comedy series "Jam" from the 90s featuring, not a landlord in this instance, but a property seller (during a time of spiraling house prices) willing to accept a lower offer in return for certain services... [link]. How I imagine these landlords in Ireland described in the article.

CPTM · 02-08-2023 9:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931884#Comment_120931884

Out of interest, if a woman went off and did prostitution with different strangers every week and earned money to pay rent that way, would you think that's acceptable?

Faugheen · 02-08-2023 9:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931478#Comment_120931478

Considering your relationship with posting about women who have been found by courts of law to have been abused, I’d stay quiet on this one.

Faugheen · 02-08-2023 9:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120932222#Comment_120932222

It’s laughable that you think this is a comparison.

I’ll describe why it’s a stupid one.

In one scenario, you have a person who is desperate for somewhere to live in a housing crisis, and they are faced with a decision to either have sex with a landlord just to be able to live in their house, or homelessness.

In your scenario, a woman is working but is struggling to make ends meet. She decides to sell sex but she still has a final say on who her partners are (even escorts say no to some people).

This situation isn’t just about paying for sex, it’s about landlords using a housing crisis to prey on desperate and vulnerable people.

Feisar · 02-08-2023 9:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931040#Comment_120931040

Threshold - No Holds Barred #20

02-08-2023 9:51pm

Oh good god what a take. Just because someone agrees to have sex because they are desperate, doesn't mean they want to/aren't miserable at the prospect.