National Beef Welfare Scheme (NBWS).

tanko · 02-08-2023 6:51pm #1

So €35 per calf for meal feeding up to a max of 40 calves and €15 per calf for IBR testing up to a max of 20 calves.

No vaccinations or dung sampling.

Micey.ie · 02-08-2023 7:03pm

No word who pays for the IBR testing! Not much good if Dept don’t pay for it

hopeso · 02-08-2023 8:49pm

What happens to a calf that tests positive for IBR?

Hard Knocks · 02-08-2023 8:55pm

I guess anyone (like us) who give the pneumonia vaccines IBR live & RSV PI3 will show as positive

irishguy19772 · 02-08-2023 9:58pm

Very very disappointed. Terrible scheme

dohc turbo2 · 03-08-2023 5:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931939#Comment_120931939

300 for Ibr testing I read yesterday

sonnybill · 03-08-2023 7:46am

Meal feeding is good as doing it anyway and it’s a good practice. iBR testing I severely doubt it that I get the 20 animals done for the E300 so that will eat into the E35 per calf for the meal

893bet · 03-08-2023 7:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933179#Comment_120933179

Up to 300, for 20 calves.

It’s not a great scheme. Not sure worth the hassle.

charolais0153 · 03-08-2023 8:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933396#Comment_120933396

35 a calf when all you have to have is a receipt for meal. Easy money

kollegeknight · 03-08-2023 10:09am

I’ve only the 8 calves. I’ll be scanning cattle anyway so I’ll get vet to take samples then. It will cover the vet visit. I buy the meal anyway.

patsy_mccabe · 03-08-2023 10:29am

Info here;

gov.ie - National Beef Welfare Scheme (www.gov.ie)

CLOSING DATE 12 September 2023 at 23.59 hrs

Sugarbowl · 04-08-2023 2:49pm

Anyone get a costing from their vet how much IBR testing will cost if doing the full 20?

Lime Tree Farm · 04-08-2023 3:01pm

https://thatsfarming.com/farming-news/ibr-in-herd/

IBR testing.

Fotish · 04-08-2023 3:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058307739/national-beef-welfare-scheme-nbws

Where did you get the €15 figure from, is that just the Lab cost?.

I presume that figure does not include the visit of the vet?.

Silverdream · 05-08-2023 8:58pm

6 weeks meal feeding works out at over €20/head at current Weanling ration prices. Double that for Organic farmers.

IBR testing, feck knows what that'll cost as it's a Vet job to draw blood samples from the Calves. That's €100 call out plus the cost of the test which will be at least €5/head.

So it just about covers the meal feeding, with a few quid left over for yourself. If you are planning on meal feeding then I guess its worth the grief and ordeal of the blood sampling and feeding.

I'll have to pass this time round

mr.stonewall · 05-08-2023 10:19pm

Has anyone a link to the terms and conditions. I wean just at Xmas, just want to see will it work

Base price · 06-08-2023 9:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120944675#Comment_120944675

Scroll down and it's the first pdf.

https://www.gov.ie/en/service/73f93-national-beef-welfare-scheme/#

bogman_bass · 06-08-2023 8:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120944437#Comment_120944437

€100 call-out fee? Ouch!

my vet is €45 for a call out

mr.stonewall · 06-08-2023 8:31pm

Looking at the fine detail, all weaning and meal feeding must be completed by the 1st of November. This rules out a lot of later calving herd. In my own situation cows calves in April - May and weaning take place just after Christmas. Weaning early for this scheme would mean that my cows would be idle and dry for an extra 2-3 months.

If welfare of animals is to be considered surely it's better to wean in a stable environment, rather than outside in a wet and miserable late October. I think this scheme is going to get a miss from this time

mr.stonewall · 06-08-2023 8:33pm

On the call out, for anyone considering the IBR, is to fit it in with scanning, cows will be in the yard, calves will be in the yard and potentially the vet will be in the yard

Anto_Meath · 06-08-2023 8:53pm

It's worth €1,000 gross to me. Now I ll be given the calves some meal anyway. But I don't know is it worth the trouble of getting 20 cattle blood tested for it. I had to blood test everything in the herd this year anyway due to a suspected case of BVD & it was a pain. It would be OK if I was doing a TB test or something & the vet could do two jobs at once. Like will the vets have the ability / resources to do this level of works within about 12 weeks considering their current work load.

Fotish · 07-08-2023 11:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120947691#Comment_120947691

Having the vet in the yard got the herd test this morning , I mentioned the. NBWS scheme to him. This was the first he had heard about it.

He seem sceptical about doing that much IBR testing, he said wouldn’t have that number of tubes, although that doesn’t sound like a big problem.

More question than answers at the moment.

manjou · 08-08-2023 11:09am

I for 1 am not going near it. Participatet in every sceme that they brought even the bvd 1 in voluntary year still at it..If they said to vaccinate against ibr then might have considered it. But after going through a tb test and genotypeing the calves not going to put me and cows through crush again. Vaccinate here every year and no problem. But as soon as cows see vet they not happy. Also the cynic in me thinks they might be ending bvd so need another scheme to replace it by saying big % of cattle have ibr so need to test yearly. If they have no evidence of ibr endemic in national herd they cannot advice for testing yearly.

patsy_mccabe · 08-08-2023 11:42am

Ya, we must be getting to the end of BVD testing. These labs must be kept opened and staffed should we have another Covid type outbreak. Might as well have them doing something productive, in the meantime.

Siamsa Sessions · 08-08-2023 12:09pm

Just on the meal-feeding (from a calf-to-beef farmer who feeds meal to various groups)

If you haven't been feeding meal to weanlings, then there's a few costs involved: it's not just the meal itself. You need decent troughs - either make them yourself or buy from the local co-op (€230 for the last double-sided one I bought - you'd feed maybe 12-15 weanlings around it). Then you need to get the meal - either collect yourself or have a bin to get it delivered into the yard (€380 for the last 1/2 ton meal bin I bought). Then, draw it out to them every day. And lastly, move the troughs every time you move them.

Feeding meal is a good thing and straightforward overall. But there's more than just the cost of meal involved.

charolais0153 · 08-08-2023 12:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952294#Comment_120952294

blue barrels cut in half or a length of black jfc corripipe cut in half dont need anything fancy for weanlings

James2022 · 08-08-2023 1:30pm

Might skip this one. Already have the calf up the crush for tagging, genotyping or castrating, weighing and potentially dosing if lungworms are bad before housing. Talking 20 calves off their mothers to put up the crush and have blood samples taken from their tails is going to drive them mad. Not to mention how unnecessary it is. My last case was 400 animals ago so it's pointless for me. Reading the post above about it, they are against vaccines for IBR unless your farm has it already.

It's getting hard to get a vet in my area and when I asked one over the weekend they were not happy to hear about a new testing scheme coming in. The call out, testing and postage fee will really eat into the payment. Not sure what clown came up with this idea but these schemes are for subsiding farmers, seems they've lost sight what that even means. There are so many more things they could have done.

893bet · 08-08-2023 1:37pm

Unsure also. Best case the scheme will pay for a half tonne of organic ration.

And all the bother against it.

On an ideal world you could do the IBR test, the weighing and the genotyping in the one handling. Might need two times up the crush as the vet won’t want to wait around for the other stuff but still the one day of hardship.

jfh · 08-08-2023 2:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952750#Comment_120952750

Can you not confirm which animals you want tested or is it chosen by the vet,say you have 20 calves ,them could you not blood the 20 mothers? think I'd prefer to leave the calves

Hard Knocks · 08-08-2023 2:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952750#Comment_120952750

Reading your post and remembering when every female had to be blood tested on the herd test. With the odd shout to the vets assistant that he’d just started a bull calf

James2022 · 08-08-2023 3:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952984#Comment_120952984

I remember those days haha.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952955#Comment_120952955

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952805#Comment_120952805

Looking at the information available it looks like we can test any 20 cattle on the farm. So you could test older animals going to the factory or mart as opposed to mothers and calves.

I also read this. There is a maximum payment of €1000. If you don't do the IBR testing you lose the €300 and a further €100 for not doing it so you end up with €600. Thats a big penalty but it's still good to know you can sign up just for the meal feeding and receive a maximum of €600 for doing so.

jfh · 08-08-2023 4:42pm

that sounds much more appealing ,feed meal before weaning anyway so may as well get something . if I was sticking with sucklers I would go for the ibr testing ,think it would be beneficial to know. I do think it's the new mandatory test when bvd goes

mr.stonewall · 08-08-2023 7:23pm

Genotyping will be the new BVD test. Look at the hype out into the roll out of it, and the lack of uptake from dairy farmers. This is the direction it will go, as it provides better data and it will be death by submission making it mandatory for all calves to be genotyped for registration. Could see the IBR element going like the FEC sampling that AHI ran with the vets over the past 2 years.

Silverdream · 09-08-2023 10:59am

idk why folks are saying "if you opt for the IBR testing"

It's mandatory.

With regard to the mael feeding

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952397#Comment_120952397

You have to feed the weanlings for 4 weeks prior to Weaning, half blue blue barrels isn't much good unless you want the Cows to scoff up all the meal.

You'd be looking at a calf creep feeder which are roughly €500

mr.stonewall · 09-08-2023 11:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956014#Comment_120956014

On the meal feeding it's all about making it easy. Those creep feeders are a disaster on 3 main fronts, keeping it filled, shy feeders and poaching around the feeder.

The biggest issue is getting the calves a taste for ration and easting out of some trough or container. In the past when getting wealings started, I just bought the cows and calves into the shed for a few days. Separate the calves once a day and give meal. After a few days they have a taste for ration. Back out to a paddock a and fence off a corner. Make sure to use the same troughs. A bit rebar and the screw on insulator to make taller stakes to the weanlings to creep.

I once saw a guy on an outblock, moved the creep gate from the shed to a cattle crush and set it up there for the few weeks

charolais0153 · 09-08-2023 12:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956014#Comment_120956014

no it isnt mandatory if you dont complete the testing they take off 10% off your payment for the meal feeding which leaves 31.50 per calf.

get some tall plastic fence posts , raise the wire and the calves go out ahead and have fresh grass and can eat the meal from the troughs

Lime Tree Farm · 09-08-2023 12:51pm

The day you put out the feeders, have the meal with you, raise the wire presenting cows access. Walk away, calves are nosy, they'll investigate. Over the following days, leave the bucket separate for the shy one. clean out the feeders or turn them over until the next day.

greysides · 13-08-2023 12:51am

Looking at the information available it looks like we can test any 20 cattle on the farm. So you could test older animals going to the factory or mart as opposed to mothers and calves.

I guess anyone (like us) who give the pneumonia vaccines IBR live & RSV PI3 will show as positive

FROM THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS:

• For herds with 20 or fewer animals, all animals must be sampled for IBR gE testing.

• For herds with more than 20 animals, the vet should randomly sample 20 animals, ideally over 9 months of age and ideally destined to be used for breeding purposes.

Twenty samples are considered to provide an adequate estimate of within herd prevalence, which in turn informs the next steps in decision making at herd level – for example whether an IBR control programme is necessary for the herd.

Also be aware that:

Participants consent to uploading of their test results on ICBF systems. Subject to relevant data sharing agreement(s) being in place, anonymised data may also be shared with AHI and CVERA for the purposes of research which may feed into the development of a national IBR control programme.

**

IBR gE testing will differentiate between vaccinal responses and responses to the wild stain. The gE gene is not present in the vaccinal strains so a positive antibody response will indicate contact with the wild strain.

Sampling costs will be a matter for individual farmers and their vet. Laboratory testing costs are currently priced between €4-€5 plus VAT). The vet will provide professional interpretation of the results that will be fed back to the herdowner. The only implication of positive results would be that the vet may suggest vaccination. Given that IBR is a major contributor to pneumonia after weaning suckler calves, vaccination may not be a bad idea, especially where there's also a history if it occurring.

irishguy19772 · 13-08-2023 7:16pm

Applied for it there. Any idea if I can go ahead and test now or do I need to wait to be accepted?

Sami23 · 14-08-2023 6:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956014#Comment_120956014

Won't get much of a creep feeder for €500 nowadays I'm afraid

Fotish · 14-08-2023 10:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120973975#Comment_120973975

Hopefully we can go ahead once the application is submitted, I did anyway.

I got the IBR testing done last week as the vet was back in the yard for the TB test check.

I got the impression from the Vet that he will take most of the €300 ! Even thought he did not have to make

a separate visit I’m waiting for his bill.

I got 20 cows tested, the documentation refers to ‘ Bovines’ , I presume that means cows !

irishguy19772 · 14-08-2023 11:27am

Need to do a private tb test to sell calves. Was planning on doing the blood test on 20 animals during the reading but fear now the vet will charge double.

Was quoted 220 for 20 animals to fo as a standalone test, 80 profit.

May just default on this part of the scheme and pay the penalty. Just do the meal feeding.. Works put around 10% to 15% so only losing 150 in total and no messing with blood tears.

Lime Tree Farm · 14-08-2023 11:33am

Wouldn't the money be better spent on vaccines, we do the vaccines prior to weaning.

Sugarbowl · 14-08-2023 11:46am

What happens if you have late May/June calvers? And you wouldn’t have them weaned by Nov 1? Or what if you have Autumn calvers?

mr.stonewall · 14-08-2023 12:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976114#Comment_120976114

The late calves are snookered unless you wean them. The autumn born are ok if you have meal dockets. I'm April May calving and don't wean until after Xmas. This is one scheme that I will be giving a miss to

josephsoap · 14-08-2023 3:40pm

I cannot see why anyone would bother giving themselves the hardship of separating out 20 animals of the herd and testing same only for the veterinary practitioners to reap the benefits

Lime Tree Farm · 14-08-2023 4:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977420#Comment_120977420

Same, it killed KT.

893bet · 14-08-2023 5:35pm

Gonna skip and I hate leaving money from a scheme unclaimed.

1) small herd with autumn and spring calvers. Have 2 being prepped for sale in three weeks (to allow for 6 weeks dry period for the cows calving again. With no ration bought this year I couldn’t even pretend I was feeding them 4 weeks.

2) some late calvers only born in April and won’t be weaned will at least January 2024

3) Organic ration so the payment would only buy a half a tonne or so anyway.

4) the bother of IBR testing and handling.

Hard Knocks · 14-08-2023 9:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976063#Comment_120976063

If you tested negative could you stop the IBR vaccine and just use the RSV PI3 on its own

Fotish · 14-08-2023 9:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976038#Comment_120976038

€220 seems about right for 20 animals to be tested, 10/11 Euro per animal.

Diarmuid B · 15-08-2023 12:25pm

Can you pull out of the scheme if you’ve signed up already? Or do you just not carry out the two actions and don’t get paid then? I signed up initially but looking into the cost of testing and organic meal it’s not worth it, plus the calves are too young to be weaning in October/November

National Beef Welfare Scheme (NBWS).

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