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The government is hoovering up too much housing - the private working taxpayer is hurting

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  • 03-08-2023 1:58pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭


    Biggest private landlord sells 194 Dublin homes to housing charity – The Irish Times

    Here we have a case where company is selling 194 homes to a "Housing charity" (really means the government as these "charities" are government funded) at €371k each.

    You can imagine the company would have instead sold them to individual hard working taxpayers for €350k to €450k each if the government wasn't hoovering up as many homes as it could get. Perfect price range for a working couple in middle Ireland for their first home - for example a teacher married to a nurse.

    The media narrateive focusing on welfare recipients, refugees, "homeless" has led to a ridiculously skewed allocation of housing capital in favour of the govenrment, and is actively hurting private buyers. We need to defund the NGO's and make it illegal for a council to lease or buy from a private developer. The government should build its own housing from its own budget on greenfield sites outside the M50.



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,773 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    The treatment of working people by the State is far worse than it’s treatment of people who don’t work.


    It’s going too far now, people who work hard and pay tax can’t afford to even rent a house. And people who by choice don’t work or pay income tax get free houses.

    Within ten years I predict a huge move to the right side in Irish politics. The State has put too much emphasis on social welfare recipients and public sector workers.

    Private sector workers are going to find someone to advance their interests.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,097 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    The government apparently has legal obligations to house those who throw themselves at the mercy of the state. So this is a logical response from the state.

    The government has no legal obligations to ordinary citizens who are trying to pay their own way in society.

    It's not going to end well.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Here is the thing Fred, private individuals could go build their own houses too and stop pushing up the cost of social housing by competing with the government and impacting every single taxpayer in the country...

    Then again Fred, you could start dealing with reality and recognise that a housing policy the depends on individuals taking on huge amounts of debt or relying on social services to provide housing is an incredibly dump idea that has never worked and never will. And once you get to understand that not everyone is going to get to own their own house, we can start to work on solving the housing crisis but not until then.

    So the more pain you have the sooner we'll get around to solving the housing crisis, but you are not going to like the solutions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,773 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Until not very long ago the Co Council in Clare (and I’d imagine other counties) were not allowed to buy houses, it was being put on local authorities to build their way out of trouble.

    Obviously that policy has been abandoned, and it will inevitably make things harder for working people again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,892 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Posted on another thread there was one single house to rent in Balbriggan about a month ago. 2750 a month for a 3 bed. Government will rent it n charge the tenants a pittance, which they will pay if they feel like it.

    Rental market totally broken due to government interference, house prices inflated by them snapping up everything going nowadays.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,317 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    I’ve predicted the same… you’ll probably end up with the likes of ..

    Ireland First, INP ( irish national party ) etc….if they don’t exist already….

    im surprised that there already hasn’t been any serious discussion revolving around our EU membership…

    also I’m surprised that there is no major appetite to reform the EU via referenda regarding immigration and securing of the borders around the EU, securing the financial wellbeing, safety and futures of EU citizens.

    the state of the world and what’s probably coming is against a backdrop totally different to the one where the EU was founded and laws drawn up, accepted and implemented….. the laws and policies and indeed leadership of the EU is completely at odds and out of date for and with what’s occurring on the planet right now….

    Planning laws are there for a reason.

    Successive governments promised the electorate more housing, not everyone, the electorate l



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,616 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,952 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Those parties are nutjobs and loons though, a real right wing party we have not had since the PDs is whats needed. no extremism, socially liberal, but fiscally right wing. We need that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,317 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    who is advocating Xenophobia. Multiple countries don’t have any asylum or protection programs at all. Are they Xenophobic ?

    there are measures in place for individuals to seek refuge on a case-by-case basis in almost every country however. But those regulations are designed and decided by said countries and what the state of play is there at any given time will influence who is accepted, what levels of help afforded, etc…..

    Working people are being hammered, this again an example housing prices, rents will explode.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,363 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    House Da homeless is all we heard for years.


    Well here is your answer.


    Better off living in a hotel for a few months crying poverty, you will get your forever home.

    Try to do it the honest way? Good luck with that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,317 ✭✭✭✭Strumms




  • Unregistered / Not Logged In Posts: 276 ✭✭Jazz Hands


    Funny how the government investigate investment funds buying estates to rent out yet they do the same themselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    The push for the next election is to hand out as many free houses as possible. That's what SF have been promising and the fan base are running after them. So the government will do the same.

    They had on RTE news the other day about lack of houses in Cavan, talking to a mate who lives in Cavan and he said one estate is been build in Cavan town which you can buy houses in. The rest of the estates are all been bought up by "charities" for social housing. He said it's a joke because young couples can't buy anymore. It's better for them to quit their jobs, sit on the dole, move into a hotel for a few months and they will be handed a free house.



  • Registered Users Posts: 460 ✭✭HerrKapitan


    You will own nothing and you will be happy

    - Klaus Schwab, WEF



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭buried


    Hold the f**k up Jim, when private individuals do actually go build their own houses, we are then labelled the architects of "McMansion Rural Monstrosities" from the governmental cheerleaders on this forum, just like yourself up in here.

    So which one do you actually want?

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users Posts: 460 ✭✭HerrKapitan


    Oh a baaaah check. That sorts it.

    Those fact checks have been seen to be invested opinion pieces long ago. They really dont work anymore.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,616 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    You made a statement and someone has disputed that statement.

    The onus is now on you, as the person who made the original statement, to prove that Klaus Schwab said what you claimed he said.

    Take your time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    Pretty much. Any party that is fiscally conservative, anti-woke and anti climate hysteria (not anti-climate science) would do very well, there is a massive open goal for that in Irish politics.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,484 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Has anyone indviduial ever quite their job gone on the dole became homeless, lived in homeless accommodation just to be 'better' off? The reason their is no non looney right wing party here is because the vast majority are not interested. Has . this occure to anyone : if councils built social housing they need the builders, land, and resorces just the same as a developer forcing the council to build the social housing won't free up more housing for those who want to buy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Forcing councills to build would mean for a given amount of government funds, potentially twice as much social housing could be built. You clearly haven't researched this.

    There’s no developer profit margin. The local authority effectively acts as the developer. In the example above – that’s €37,980

    There are no land fees, because the local authority already owns the land. That’s €57,500

    There is effectively no VAT. While local authorities would pay VAT, that’s money going from the State, back to the State. That’s €39,310

    There are effectively no planning levies. Again, this is tantamount to the local authority “charging itself”. That’s €11,750

    The cost of financing would be cut by around 50%, because of the lower borrowing rates afforded to the State. That’s €10,001

    There are no sales and marketing costs, because the local authority retains ownership of the units. The absence of a need for sales and marketing is particularly pronounced in the context of a high demand for social housing. That’s €8,200.

    This amounts to €164,741 saved in the SCSI example – leaving a house price of €165,752 as opposed to €330,493 – 50% cheaper.

    Stopping the state from hoovering up pre-built houses should be a legal restriction. It is mad financially and socially. There is an issue in terms of an apparent insufficient construction capacity, but that itself is a problem created by the government in the form of the 2007 financial 'crash'. Construction of new houses almost literally stopped, with the value of existing housing falling 50%, It became more expensive to build than a house was worth. Droves of tradesmen had to emigrate to find employment, which they did in places not managed by Cowan and his ilk, like New Zealand, where Christchurch conveniently needed re-building. Canada probably hoovered up lots as trade skills have long been sought and they have an accelerated easy immigration path for such people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,101 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,484 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    What if the council had to buy the land they won't get it cheaper than a developer. Would you be happy that the council would do social housing quickly, get good value, and be EFFICIENT. The children's hospital? There is no separate set of construction workers to which the councils and local authorities have access if they are building.

    Post edited by mariaalice on


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,484 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    It's a false dichotomy to pit social housing against everyone else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,484 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    If you were to follow this argument to its logical conclusion When a local authority builds an estate of A-rated homes why should they go for social housing surely they should be forced to sell them to those who can get a mortgage as they were built with taxpayer money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    I'm not too sure. What is really needed is a party that focuses exclusively on being economic right-wing and stays out of the social policy culture war. Otherwise they'll just be another Renua, who I considered voting for in 2016 until I found out about their anti-abortion history.



  • Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Yakov P. Golyadkin


    You 'found out' their anti-abortion stance? That was their entire raison d'etre.



  • Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭TedBundysDriver


    The country is crying out for a right wing party. Personally i can't stand right wing politics but we do need some sort of balance



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Balance to the 2 centre right parties which have been in government for 100 years???



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