All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship 2023 ( Munster And Leinster Championships,Liam McCarthy Cup)

Do Limerick really time their run?

Like do they leave a bit in the tank in Munster, if so it is a bit of a risky thing. A puck of the ball would have seen them knocked out.

Id find it hard to believe anyone goes anything, but flat out for the Munster campaign.

What I wouldnt under estimate is the value of the 4 week break to the semi final. Team is massively battle hardened from the Munster campaign, but has the time to refresh and recuperate and drive on again.

Ive noticed a lot of people trying to comfort themselves with talk of minor teams since Sunday.

Very convenient.

From memory Waterford were exceptionally poor in 2008. Barely held on against Wexford with a last minute free or penalty (can't remember which) whizzing over the bar. The only decent performance was against Tipp in that semi.

The biggest issue with teams is when older players are held on too long. Case in point Kerry in football after 1986 and again between 2015-2017. When older hold not just positions on the team but on the bench it's very hard to renew a squad.

Young lads in there early twenties will move on. Nothing prepares you for any leavel.of team sport than playing the game. It's immaterial whether you look at club or county level. After great teams come a decline.

Cody stemmed that 2011-2016, Sheehy got an AI out of an ageing Tipp team but time catches them all.

The Cork team of the late nineties and early noughties declined and after there last AI the hanging around of the bulk of the team along with the player strikes caused a long-term decline in Cork.

These periods if decline can hit twenty years and longer on even stronger counties.

Basically you are talking through your proverbial. Limerick of course after beating Waterford went on to be successful over the next 4-5 years with a relatively young team?

Water were on fire in 2007. Whether they could have put it up to Kilkenny they would have been a harder test than Limerick.

The following year they had a new manager if I remember right and were an ageing team in 2007. They played three hard game in three weeks in 2007 and lost the third.

Stop gloating over another weaker county missing a chance and declining afterwards

watched back hurling final last night.... Derek Lyng definitely has reason to be disappointed with some of the frees Limerick got particularly in the 1st half... i counted 3 frees that werent frees at all... there were 2 decisions in 2nd half one of them being the 65 that was wasnt awarded... but KK cant complain about that one really as Limerick should have got a 65 in 2019 semifinal...

Derek Lyng i think should be a little disappointed with his own performance as well.... the only time i heard billy ryans name mentioned was when he was being subbed off... walter was gone before him tho he got on alot of ball.. and derek did little or nothing to try and stem the LK tide after deegans goal

The Kilkenny fans around me were extremely agitated at half time re the frees given at half time. To be honest, I didn't take any notice.

Its very difficult for a ref in hurling in comparison to football. The ball can be gone from one side of the pitch to the other in 2 seconds.

Cant be any doubt about the deserved winners. Any comments about ref giving more frees to one team than another is purely clutching at straws. Men against boys in the second half.

Anyone else feel underwhlemed by the hurling this year? Obviously not so much Limerick fans given it's been another clean sweep year for them and they've just completed a four-in-a-row, but does anyone get the feeling the hurling itself wasn't all it's cracked up to be?

There's obvious problems with the way the game is played, chief amongst them being the throwball and the various other ills it promotes (the barging/charging, the steps, the pulling/dragging/tactical fouling to counter it,). I know Limerick get the brunt of the blame for it, due in large part to begrudgery due to their dominance, but they're not doing anything that everybody else is doing, they're just doing it so much better and their talent means they make more use of it.

The problem is, while the focus may be on Limerick, everybody is at it. It's in every corner of the sport, at every age group. And let's be honest, it's cheating. As much as I love the game, and I do, and as much as there's still some outrageous and fantastic skills on display, and there is, I can't help but get the feeling that the game has gone well past the "let if flow" into "anything goes" territory, and the knock on effect has been a sport now not built around the skills of the game, but things like throwing, steps, barging. Most scores worked up the field involve at least one throw, very often no legitimate handpasses at all being used. The tackling in the main is reduced to pulling/dragging to stop them throwing, barging/charging/ducking the head are no longer frees, holding up a player is no longer effective as he can just throw the ball to a team-mate, assuming his arm isn't being held by the opposition's intensity.

Laying the blame at one county isn't going to solve the issue. There's very little respect for the rules, or the refs, in the sport anymore. Maybe some of the rules need to modernise to come up to speed with modern hurling, but I can't shake the feeling watching hurling these days that while there's still some great stuff to be viewed, it's hard not to notice the persistent and increasingly obvious fouling, a lot of it tactical, going on in the game.

And while the possession game is obviously a smarter use of the ball, it does seem to make the sport very stop/start, and is taking a lot of the one on one contest out of the sport. And of course, there's the afore-mentioned throwing/steps on which that game plan seems to rely on.

That's not to mention the sorry state of the Leinster Championship and the National League. The Munster Championship has been the saviour of hurling this year really, without it hurling would have barely caused a ripple on the sporting year.

Honestly, from looking at hurling club and county, adult and underage, I just get the feeling the sport is heading down the way football did 20 year ago when the possession game took over; we're marvelling at the smart play, and ignoring the negative and cheating that it relies on.

I think removing the throw by banning a pass from the same hand that releases the ball would be a huge start to solving the problems, at lest unlike football, hurling has the third element in the hurl to counteract the negatives of the possession game. At the very least, it would force players to actually use the hurl or quick hands to get rid of the ball, which are skills of the game, where the throw requires no skill at all. It would mean lads would be less likely charge/barge into the opposition if they can't simply throw it, and would likely play it quicker or longer, adding a bit more natural flow and contest to the game.

And we could do with calling out pundits/commentators, like those on The Sunday Game, who argue in favour of letting fouls go and blame the refs for blowing for frees instead of the players/managers for crossing the line with their playing/tactics. Some of these shows/pundits have a big influence on the way the sport is seen, demanding a bit of honesty and actually understanding the rules of the sport from them might not go astray.

Hurling is still a great sport, but it needs to face up to it's problems, particularly it's rampant in-game cheating that has invaded hurling across the board. Hell, if we were to apply the rules of the sport literally, we wouldn't be able to even start a match because nobody plays with regulation equipment anymore.

All of which leads me to feel that the hurling itself, its structures, and it's leadership have been a bit underwhelming. A handful of decent games a year and some outstanding/fantastic moments can't mask it forever.

Kilkennys success was largely built on dragging the game into the gutter. We're told how great they were, but it was built on being more dogmatic and physical than everyone else. Most others took that blueprint and went down that road, Limerick went even bigger and more physical.

I'm sick saying it, and even despite maybe a lack of success, kids should be made watch Cork play. The only team who really emphasis their style of play based on skill rather than physicality. The rest have gone down a different path, Cork are the last ambassadors of actual hurling,

That's why I believe Cork being successful is crucial to the health of the game. If Cork can over come the physical difference in time, and outwork teams technically and skillwise, they'll expose how rigid and wooden the Limerick system is, and how all the others are now playing.

Teams will be forced to change their style, rather than aiming to be the biggest and most physical

Yous will see yet in that case! Limerick and KK advanced turgid hurling for far too long, it will be over thrown in time. It's a skill based and technical game, and in time will be again

Cork are also the worst county by far for the run and throw/excessive steps game that's rampant in hurling at the minute. I don't think a Cork player at any level has hit a legitimate hand-pass in years. The entire way the hurl is based around the possession game these days. Other counties at least try and vary it, but Cork seem to stick rigidly to it. And that lack of variation in their play has arguably what tripped them up over the past few years at senior, especially when other sides kind of out their HB and midfield.

Not that they're alone in it, every team is at the throwing of the ball, but unlike other counties that try something different every so often, Cork seem to have their entire game plan built around the run and throw possession game, which is hardly the most skillful form of hurling. The idea that Cork play a more skillful form of hurling is simply delusional at best. It's no co-incidence that Cork have improved in recent years with the move towards the possession game and the abandonment by refs of the steps/throw rules as it suits the way they "hurl".