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Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,769 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    It’s not far off about half the nighttime flights currently, give or take. Winter would be a little different.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,769 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    The airflow over the whole aircraft. If you’re standing next to one taking off then of course you’ll hear engines, but the noise from a plane flying overhead is mostly air passing over the airframe. The same noise really as you hear when you open a car window on the motorway!



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,004 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Tbf though the planning condition is ridiculous. If the planning condition was 65 flights on the new runway (the one that got planning permission), that would be one thing, but imposing it on the existing infrastructure too is ridiculous.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    One of the reasons departures off 28R MUST turn right after takeoff is due to the missed approach/go around procedures off 28L which also turns right. Now I can only assume this is because a left turn would have it go straight into airspace affecting Weston and Baldonnel putting safety at risk and causing aircraft to occasionally fly very low at high engine power over very populated areas like Blanchardstown. A solution to that could mean departures could fly more straight off 28R. Of course that would just move the burden of noise to other areas. One off housing in North County Dublin that should never have been built if we had a proper planning system because these are inefficient and bad international practice.


    All of this though is nothing to do with the nighttime restriction which was created when traffic at Dublin was significantly lower than it is now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,232 ✭✭✭plodder


    I don't think anyone is complaining about the noise made by aircraft cruising at 30,000 feet. But, you don't have to be standing next to a departing aircraft to hear engine noise. It's pretty significant up to at least 4,000-5,000 feet when you are below it. On the landing side, I agree airframe noise is a big part of that, but the annoying component is the fan whine imo.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    Left turns do occur from Dublin Airport. It's called the Dexen route and I was woken up by a cargo aircraft at 2.30AM last week.



  • Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭sailing


    The planning is from 2007, at a time when engines are no where near as quiet as they are now.


    The “locals” bought a cheap house under the flight path, to get the “good” postal address, which is a little like buying the fake Chanel handbag off the street vendor. They wanted the address but weren’t willing to pay for it!

    Any educated mind would know that the airport would be developed into the future.

    The curfew is ridiculous. It’s time it was challenged and a matter of national strategic importance.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,748 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    The planning decision is completely non sensical and I don’t know how it is even legal!

    Fair enough if they restricted the night time use of the new runway, but I honestly don’t know how they can retroactively apply it to the entire existing Airport.

    imagine you applied for planning permission to build an extension to your home, they gave you permission but said you now can’t use your home between 11pm and 7am !

    It actually brings up a very dangerous precedent where if you try to make any improvements to your home or business, that the planning authorities can then put new onerous planning conditions on you.

    Imagine Intel applied to build a new fab next to their existing ones and the planners said sure, but now you can’t run your old fabs at night, even though they could before!

    If this planning decision is left like this, it could do real damage to our ability to build new infrastructure and could seriously damage our economy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,232 ✭✭✭plodder


    It's not unusual for planning conditions to put time of day restrictions on construction activities that can cause nuisance. It seems reasonable to me that if normal operations also can cause a nuisance then planning conditions should apply to that too. Eg nightclubs, bars etc. Less likely in the case of house extensions or semiconductor fabs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    The issue under discussion is go-arounds on 28L when it is the landing runway and 28R is in use for departures. Of course there are several left-turn SIDs from 28L to the south and south-east but these are prescribed routes where the turn does not take place early.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    Frankfurt Airport closes from 11PM to 7AM and this is STRICTLY adhered to. It is one of the busiest airports in the world and is the main hub for Lufthansa and their cargo flights.

    Some people demand that capitalism must take precedence over people's general health.



  • Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭dublin12367


    11pm -7pm is a huge restriction especially for Dublin which is an hour behind most of Europe. A better balance for all would be a 12am -6am restriction of 65 per night to ensure the rush hour traffic between 6am and 7am can get out and make up that extra hour. I also can’t understand how 6am -7am would be classed as night time either.


    as far as I know Heathrow has a restriction from 11:30pm to 6am. Which considering time zones would be more in line with Dublin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    Midnight is too late.

    Flights should stop at Dublin at 11PM and a compromise with resumption at 6AM possibly. Airlines should be heavily fined for breaking such time limits.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,818 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    You're right, and now we see that people have purchased cheaper houses in one off housing estates under the flight paths are now complaining that there cheap homes are too noisy.. "won't somebody please think of the children"

    These homeowners can apply for grants to get sound proofing depending on the location under the flight paths..

    And as usual a small group of mostly serial objectors and local opportunist vote hungry councillors are holding the countries economic future in their hands..



  • Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭dublin12367


    We will have to agree to disagree on that one. Majority of flights between 11pm and 12 am are flights landing on 28L or 10R anyway which have had no problems over the last 30 years and are much quieter than take offs.

    Residents under 28R have no right to demand nighttime restrictions when it does not effect them any differently than it has over the last 30 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭dublin12367


    Also to add, quick look at Frankfurt and last night they had approx 85 landings and departures between 11pm and 7am.



  • Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭moonshy2022


    I heard one loud vocal local woman who had objected vociferously to the original SIDs, post change and improvement for her area quickly moved her Ire on to the next thing that was annoying her. Some people feed off negativity. Some people will never be happy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭moonshy2022


    TL;DR do you think people have the time to sit down and read peoples masters dissertation?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,004 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Frankfurt closes from 11pm to 5am though, not 7am. It's a 6 hour closure so Ryanair's one of midnight to 6am would be the same. Even if you wanted to do 11pm to 6am, I can imagine there's much departures between 11 and midnight so you're basically looking at arrivals in the 11 to midnight slot and the early US landings from around 4.30 as the main traffic there. 6-7 for departures is busy though and taking that away will be a major issue for airlines.

    Even looking at other airports, Heathrow,Stansted,Gatwick and Zurich are 11:30 to 6. Budapest, Cologne are from midnight to 5. 11 to 7 would actually be very strict compared to others



  • Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭sailing


    There is a simple solution to this. Apply the restriction to the new runway only.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,031 ✭✭✭Blut2


    Or CPO the serial complainers and just stop them from blocking progress for the country properly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    That would be immaterial in that, under planning permission, the new runway is not allowed to operate between 2300 and 0700 unless operational needs dictate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭dublin12367


    Leo Varadkar doesn’t anticipate disruption to flights at Dublin as a result of Fingal CC order. Believes things to play out at An Bord Pleanala and in the courts before the action comes into force. See that quote this afternoon on twitter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    And the first FRA departure tomorrow is at 0445, with over 30 other departures before 0700. Those Germans get up early!



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,265 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Yeah he said it this afternoon.

    Government will 100% get involved I think. If you've the taoiseach saying it won't be an issue then it'll probably get sorted



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    Leo is available for a quotable statement any day you like at the moment - taking advantage of most Ministers being on holiday to get a bit more coverage for himself during the slow season. Not too bothered about the "separation of powers" principle either, whereby politicians should stand well back from saying anything that might appear to prejudge what a court would do.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,410 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    If National Roads projects can get above local authority level for this kind of stuff surely the national airport should be given legislative footing above LA level.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,004 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    It's 5am for Frankfurt. I'd hazard a guess that 4.45 one won't actually take off until gone 5. They'll just board and sit there and probably departs at 5.01.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    Pushback and taxi to runway 18 would absorb 15 minutes anyway.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,647 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    MODERATOR ACTION

    comment deleted, user is threadbanned

    Post edited by Irish Steve on


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