Dealer reneging on trade-in price - what to do?

Deepwell · 31-07-2023 5:48pm #1

Ordered a new car in early March. Was assured by the dealer that it was in already transit (a cancellation) and would be available in May. Long story short, car never appeared in May, dealer apologized and assured me another would be be available in June and could be registered for July 232 at the original price and trade-in valuation. Just got a call to push out delivery yet again for another few weeks and to say they were reducing my trade in allowance. Very unhappy. To me, its a clear breach of contract but realistically what can I do? I dont want to walk away from the sale as prices have increased since I oderered and I'll have to go into another long wait to get the car I want. All along the dealer said not to worry, that they would honour the original agremment - until they decided they to change their mind. Anybody have similar experiences?

31-07-2023 5:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058307391/dealer-reneging-on-trade-in-price-what-to-do

I'm confused. You normally sign a contract the same day as picking up your car. When did you sign a contract?

Deepwell · 31-07-2023 5:58pm

Have not got the car yet. Dealer keeps pushing out delivery date despite insisting its in the country.

User1998 · 31-07-2023 6:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120922350#Comment_120922350

I’d imagine there was no contract, therefore no breach of contract

elperello · 31-07-2023 6:18pm

How much is at stake?

Give it as a percentage of what you were paying if you don't want to give too much detail.

pat_sconce · 31-07-2023 6:21pm

Where's the breach of contract?

Very obviously your trade in is going to be several months older with several months more mileage - and the new car will still be brand new.

And you expect the same trade in value?

Seriously?

saabsaab · 31-07-2023 6:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120922502#Comment_120922502

Not their fault and secondhand prices aren't falling.

pat_sconce · 31-07-2023 7:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120922635#Comment_120922635

So if someone was selling you a used car for say €10,000 and then say they will use it for another 5 months, you'd be happy to still pay €10,000?

I think not.

Delays happen, parameters change. If the op has an issue they are fully entitled to walk away.

But there is no breach

Larbre34 · 31-07-2023 7:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120922502#Comment_120922502

Respectable dealers will honour the trade-in price agreed despite the passage of time, especially if the delivery delay is down to their maker.

What to do? Walk away and buy your new car from someone else who treats customers with respect.

Besides, what do you think the after sales and service experience will be like if this is how they do business?

saabsaab · 31-07-2023 7:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120922814#Comment_120922814

He said '(dealer) that it was in already transit (a cancellation) and would be available in May. Long story short, car never appeared in May, dealer apologized and assured me another would be be available in June and could be registered for July 232 at the original price and trade-in valuation.' he has gone back on his word at least.

rpg · 31-07-2023 8:25pm

What sort of percentage reduction in trade in value are we talking here? Assuming you don’t want to disclose figures.

Breach of contract is a push but I wouldn’t be impressed either if they explicitly stated they’d honour the trade in value, and now won’t.

As someone above said it makes you a little nervous as to what their after care will be if they’re penny pinching on trade in value. So what there’s a few extra miles on the clock, you’re buying a new car from them.

I’d probably call their bluff and say you’re pulling out due to the repeated delays and the reduction of trade in value. If they don’t rectify / make amends then they’re definitely not worth dealing with. Businesses who think you need them more than they need you (customer) will eventually get their comeuppance.

_Kaiser_ · 31-07-2023 8:27pm

Dealer should be honouring the original agreement. The delays are on their side and while some are arguing that the OP's car has devalued so a lower price is fair, he has been sitting around waiting for his new car and working with the dealer (and being messed about!) rather than going elsewhere - what's that worth?

Dirty Nails · 31-07-2023 10:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923098#Comment_120923098

How do you figure delay is on dealers side? He can't pluck it out of the sky. That would be an importer issue & they won't compensate the dealer for the delay.

mickdw · 31-07-2023 11:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923673#Comment_120923673

Well they are a professional dealer. They deal with the Importer daily. They are expected to know the nitty gritty of it and if they suspected anything dodgy in the delivery schedule, be straight with customer and make it clear up front that they might not be able to hold trade in value.

Instead they have bluffed the customer re cancellations and other cars in the pipeline and now, it's gone back further.

It's the dealers issue. Tell them stick it up their ass.

Cookie_Monster · 31-07-2023 11:16pm

The importer can and should come to the party, via the dealer. Happened all the time with my previous place, importer would commit to pricing and honour it at their cost if delays

Larbre34 · 01-08-2023 8:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923720#Comment_120923720

Precisely.

Daveq · 01-08-2023 8:31am

I don't know the solution. But just curious, did you pay a deposit and get a "balance to pay" receipt type thing also showing the value of your trade in off the total?

beachhead · 01-08-2023 12:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058307391/dealer-reneging-on-trade-in-price-what-to-do

Do you have anything in writing outlining the agreed trade in value and the new car price which would show the amountbyouhave to putbtowards the new car?I would hold the dealer to that price.As far as I am concerned that would be my/their contract agreed by both parties.

JoyPad · 01-08-2023 1:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925386#Comment_120925386

When you order the car, you receive a Quotation form, stating the price of the new car, cost of extras, value of the part exchange (trade-in), and the balance. In my case, since I was taking a PCP, it also had the details of the monthly payment and the amount of the last payment (guaranteed future value). This was significant in my situation, since the ECB rates went up 3 times from the time of the order until the delivery date. It was great getting both the lower loan rate and the original trade-in value.

Charles Babbage · 01-08-2023 1:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924288#Comment_120924288

This would seem to be the question. If you paid a deposit then I would have thought that a contract was in place and that will have some text on issues like this.

mickdw · 01-08-2023 2:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923720#Comment_120923720

Very true. Its someone's fault but not customers so customer shouldn't be the one out of pocket.

_Kaiser_ · 01-08-2023 4:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923673#Comment_120923673

The dealer is the one who the customer is dealing with and it's them who have to stand over the deal they agreed. Their problems with their supplier/importer is not the customer's problem. That's for them to address separately.

It's even more the dealer's responsibility by virtue of the fact that they've been messing the customer around and stringing them along to cover for their supplier.

This "argument" is used all the time in the services industry (where a lot of responsibilities are outsourced) but as a customer, I don't care what problems a company has with their vendors/suppliers/contractors. My relationship is with the company itself and that's who I hold accountable and expect to resolve it in a satisfactory manner.

It would be like getting Sky installed and the engineer they send damages your wall while installing the dish. Do you waste your time arguing with him, or do you get on to Sky and tell them to rectify it?

DownByTheGarden · 01-08-2023 5:11pm

I bet I know the dealer. There is one dealer who are notorious for this. Makes then extra money because they pull it on the customer just as their new car is arriving and if they want to back out its just not feasible. Going to take a wild guess and say they are a main dealer not too far from Glasnevin cemetary

Deepwell · 02-08-2023 12:15am

Thanks for all the comments. Dealer is not near Glasnevin BTW. Deposit was made and itemised quotation was received so a contract definitely exists. Also email from dealer advising of imminent May delivery received but not fulfilled.

I know there are problems in supply chains but I was not the one making commitments that were successively missed. The model of car which will be traded is only five years old and similar vehicles are still being offered online by other dealers at +€4k more than my trade in allowance so the dealer is not taking a major loss. This isn't a luxury car, just a popular family saloon. I'd love to walk away at this stage but the reality is that while they are proposing to cut my trade in allowance by X, due to the passage of time prices have gone up by 3x-4x so I'm at a financial loss either way (and it takes me a few weeks to earn X). Small claims court with a ceiling of €2k would not cover my loss at this stage.

You can reasonably suggest the trade is now worth less but that should have been factored into the dealers pricing (I was paying the current (at the time) dealers list price less the trade-in).

Imagine you order you new car, wait months for delivery and then the dealer presents you with a model with a lower spec than you had agreed to purchase? I'm sure no one would want to accept that as its not "what we agreed". It's really the same net outcome, but there does not seem to be an effective mechanism for resolving this short of fully lawyering up?

goochy · 02-08-2023 12:32pm

if you get trade in he promised , would that not mean you were getting to drive your own car free of charge for time when it was supposed to be replaced ?

02-08-2023 12:46pm

Prior to Covid, there was no long delays on new cars, since Covid, unfortunately delivery times are longer and unpredictable, which makes pricing more difficult. I’ve just been through the frustrating process of ordering a new car myself, the dealer would give no commitment to trade in price until closer to the delivery date, so I decided to hand in my car the day I ordered the new one so that I got a fixed trade in price.

Op, as others have said, you have had the benefit of the use of your existing car for what will be 6 months or more, and through a new reg number, so it is understandable that your car is not worth today what it was worth in early March. It would be a lot to expect that you use it for 6 months, put up more kms, and expect it not to drop in value. The delay is frustrating, but not the dealers fault, all car manufacturers are delayed (mine won’t be on my drive until second quarter next year according to an email I got a few days ago), so I know how you feel. Such is life though.

Padraig Mor · 02-08-2023 1:08pm

Would I be out of order to suggest the dealer did actually get the car in May but sold it to a new customer whilst hoping to keep the OP stringing along as well? A cancellation already in transit due in a few weeks sounds pretty certain to me - far from a car which hasn't been manufactured yet. Sell it to the punter who turned up demanding a car in two weeks or they'll go elsewhere, and hope he can get another car for the OP.

02-08-2023 1:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930283#Comment_120930283

Jaysus.

User1998 · 02-08-2023 1:27pm

OP you are getting a 232 reg instead of a 231, and your car is depreciating more and more every day. So although it seems like you are having to pay extra, in reality you are not really paying any more than you would have.

You can’t have your cake and eat it, but I do agree that the dealer shouldn’t have made a promise that they couldn’t keep

JoyPad · 02-08-2023 5:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930055#Comment_120930055

I don't have proof either way, but my guess is that the dealers would factor in some sort of margin to make sure they don't come at a loss.

I've seen the car I just traded in being sold on carzone for 5K more than what they offered me.

Gumbo · 02-08-2023 5:08pm

What does the contract say? Simples.

The price difference between March and now is staggering. €10k lower on some cars.

beachhead · 02-08-2023 8:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930055#Comment_120930055

??? Trade in agreed.There is no free driving.The dealer would well aware that the owner is going to put more miles on the existing car

goochy · 03-08-2023 10:01am

if you are driving your car putting up wear and tear and kms but still expect the same trade in if you had received the car months earlier - you are driving your car free of depreciation - which is one of biggest costs of running a car

common sense is not so common

Marcusm · 03-08-2023 4:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930055#Comment_120930055

A friend ordered a Q5 for delivery April 2022 with agreed trade in on a 3 year old Q5. Eventually arrived January 2023 at wrong spec and was rejected. Q5 to spec delivered July 2023 and dealer stood over original price and trade in value. She’d been driving it a full year longer than anticipated. That’s decent service.

Marcusm · 03-08-2023 4:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933869#Comment_120933869

I wouldn’t agree with your last comment. A consumer and a business don’t have parity of arms when it comes to negotiation and a dealer’s failure to secure adequate supply to meet his scheduled commitments should require him to suck it up under fair dealing obligations. He might squeal that the distributor is the big boy but he chooses to deal with consumers and must act fairly.

03-08-2023 4:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120935626#Comment_120935626

There is what should be, and there is reality.

beachhead · 03-08-2023 9:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933869#Comment_120933869

The dealer agreed a price at a point in time.The way prices are oscillating at the moment it is not free driving.

M3CS · 03-08-2023 10:26pm

This dealer is messing the OP around, plain and simple. Given how long he's waited and the recent hikes in rates it will be hard to walk away but it's evident that these clowns don't value him as a customer. If the dealer, importer or manufacturer fuck the order up then the customer shouldn't be the one out of pocket but that's exactly what's happening in this instance. I can't understand how some people are arguing otherwise.

kennethsmyth · 03-08-2023 11:45pm

Op walk away, regardless of price you cannot trust this dealer

04-08-2023 6:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937326#Comment_120937326

That would seem counterproductive.

Some lucky buyer gets a new car sooner than expected, the dealer will have no problem selling the car, but the op would be lucky to get a 241 car, possible price hike from the maker, no guarantee that another dealer will be any more capable of getting a new car when promised etc.

goochy · 04-08-2023 7:17am

if the op got his car months ago it would be depreciating now and putting up kms - his own car is doing the same

User1998 · 04-08-2023 12:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937636#Comment_120937636

Very true, OP has potentially saved thousands by getting their car delayed. The brand new car would be depreciating a lot quicker than their trade in is

creedp · 04-08-2023 2:09pm

It probably seemed like a good idea to be guaranteeing trade in values for extended periods during a time of zero or even negative depreciation......now back in the real world possibly not so

gearoidol · 04-08-2023 7:09pm

Having personal experience of taking legal action against a dealer , I would advise be prepared for a possible fight.

It is highly likely the dealer will ignore any solicitors to test whether you have the resolve to take it further.

If the fight is protracted you may be asked by your solicitor to employ a barrister, that's when the fun starts and the 5 figures are thrown around.

It will be stressful and may not be ultimately successful,so proceed with caution if going the legal route .

04-08-2023 7:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120940551#Comment_120940551

Its lucky we don’t allow access to guns like in the US.

rpg · 04-08-2023 10:26pm

No wonder we’re considered a nation of pushovers seeing all the replies to “suck it up” and “you’ve put miles on your car”. Embarrassing.

Tell them it’s compensation for delaying your car. God forbid it might push them to improve their service/timelines.

05-08-2023 3:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120941250#Comment_120941250

No wonder our insurance is so high, compensation culture thrives here. Most understand the impact of world events on the motor industry, delays are not unique to any one brand. It is very disappointing and takes away some of the joy of ordering a new car, as I said earlier, it will be next year before I see mine, but it’s not like this stuff hasn’t been in the news for the last couple of years.

https://archive.ph/We4Mj

littlevillage · 05-08-2023 4:41am

Maybe we have got all the information here from the OP or maybe we haven't...... But the dealer would have been aware from the get go, that suppliers/manufacturers are facing problems... soo should have warned the customer about the possibility of delays and the ramifications in terms of changes to the original contract if there were any considerable delays. If that caveat was not mentioned (or noted on the contract) then the customer is right to be miffed.

What would I do, if I was in this position ? I suppose it would come down to the money, whether it is worth re-negotiating with this dealer or walking away, but any new deal, delivery time frame etc. needs to be in writing with some sort of agreed formula for dealing with any further delays/complications should they arise.

lawrencesummers · 05-08-2023 5:18am

Why don't you just sell the car privately and get more for it instead of trading it in.

That would surely make up the difference.

Donald Trump · 05-08-2023 7:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120941567#Comment_120941567

The OP has done his deal, received definite assurances as regards delivery. What he is doing in the meantime is analogous to being given the use of the garage's car while waiting on his new one to come in.

I'm sure you wouldn't refuse the use of a garage's car if you dropped your own in for a service after being assured you could have it back the next day, only to return to pick it up and be told that due to their mistake your car was already split but they forgot they needed to order a part and they will be too busy to finish the job within the next 4 weeks.

05-08-2023 7:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120941691#Comment_120941691

Strange analogy aside, the garage would never give me the use of a car for six months free of charge. The deal was done contingent on the car arriving as expected, it didn’t happen, the op is not out of pocket, he/she can walk away if he/she wants, and buy somewhere else, the car can be sold to another buyer in quick order. It’s frustrating, but there is no point getting your knickers in a twist, as another poster said, the op can sell the car privately for more than the garage is likely to give on trade in.

Dealer reneging on trade-in price - what to do?

Comments