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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Sounds like FG are doing a bit of electioneering with some of the recent things. Anything there was a big backlash about they were out throwing soundbites around. The NRL was one, yet they voted for it in the end despite Leo saying it needed more wok and clarity. I don't know if there was much derision at the rail plan but Leo again brought a bit of realism to the table.

    I was reading today an opinion piece about the rail plan, or at least it was mentioned. In it it said the UK are talking about scrapping HS2 due to the cost and the little benefit it would bring now. That's the opposite of what is proposed here. In addition, spending all that money on rail when there's a move to EVs isn't going to help the climate as the transport fleet would be decarbonised by a lot once EVs are the mode of choice. It won't help with congestion though and that's one of the reasons Ryan should be reprimanded for attempting to delay/stop road building as cars, rightly or wrongly, are seen by many as a way of free movement and not be curtailed by timetables (I'd agree with that myself). It was suggested then that the focus should now move to peak time congestion in cities and away from curtailing car use across the country at all times.

    Link to piece - https://www.farmersjournal.ie/tax-strategy-groups-pre-budget-report-776968



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    This was never about decarbonisation. It is all about the hatred of the car. If it was about decarbonisation, we'd be approaching it as Norway did, with a mass rollout of EV infrastructure, not just focusing on the EV itself.

    A lot of hardcore Greens really are just pinkos waving a green flag to be more palatable to Joe Voter. If there was no cars and everyone had to walk and take the bus, it'd be "equality" in society.

    When it comes to transport, before the next election all Eamon Ryan will have to show for his 4 years of hard labour are a few rural bus routes which will be useful for a small number of people, improved cycling infrastructure, and a few blocked roads projects in Limerick and Sligo.

    "Where's the Metro?" "Where's the new DART?" "Where's the Cork Luas?" "Sorry, I spent my time in Government ramping up culture wars on the car, instead of doing anything actually useful to get public transport deployed".

    I remember in 2018 hearing when the IPCC report came out that we had until 2030 to decarbonise and I thought to myself "what will Ireland realistically see deployed in public transport by 2030?" At the time, MetroLink and DART+ had a chance of getting done by 2030. Neither have yet to obtain planning permisison, let alone start on the shovel. As of right now, the only meaningful new public transport (aside from potentially some BusConnects) will be electrifying the Cork suburban rail network and DART to Maynooth. So in the whole "we have 12 years to save the planet" period we managed nothing new except we electrified circa 3% of the rail network to get to 5% overall.

    Anyone who actually looks this stuff up before the next election and gave the Greens a preference based on transport at the last election will rightly see them as a pack of complete spoofers.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It is all about the hatred of the car.

    This persecution complex is fascinating to watch.

    Nonsense, but fascinating nonetheless.

    Has little foundation in reality though



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    If the Greens truly wanted to decarbonise Irish transport, they'd take the blinkers off and realise that in most cases (especially outside Dublin and Cork and in Limerick and Galway in limited ways, and along the interurban high standard rail lines) road transport is the only viable option. Electric cars, cycling and buses are the only option then for decarbonised transport.

    What has the last 3 years of pontificating and lecturing people and telling people they know what's good for them achieved? Nothing. And that will be their ultimate legacy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,112 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    FG did vote against the NRL at the European Paliaments Agriculture Committee stage, as did SF, so once the rewetting, which was the main concern for farmers, was mostly sidelined then they can always say they were part of achieving that. FG seem to be getting the message that the natives down the country are not happy, but what FF were playing at is anybody`s guess where McConalogue FF TD for Donegal and Minister for Agriculture,Food and the Marine was still backing the E.U, Commissions plan, or indeed where Ming the Merciless turf cutter was going doing the same.

    Governments here usually get a kicking from the electorate mid way through their term at local elections, and with nothing much more than a year between the next local and GE, that kicking could easily carry over in that short space of time. FG at least seem to have woken up to the danger to their rural Dail seats, FF are sleepwalking along still.

    Not surprised at the UK HS2 rail plan in trouble. Much like what was proposed here it has all the look of a money pit without any discernible advantages. Greens do wish lists with no economic cost benefit analysis. The only time they did any costing here was on the rail plan, but rather than going for 100% of their wish list and doing a cost benefit anlysis on the the various propsals, it had to be an all or nothing that doomed sections that could have made economic sense.

    At this stage I`m not sure greens have any interest in EV`s, or for that matter public transport when you see 130 buses sitting in garages because there is no means of charging them. It`s everyone on bikes and back to pre-industrialisation.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    in most cases (especially outside Dublin and Cork and in Limerick and Galway in limited ways, and along the interurban high standard rail lines) road transport is the only viable option.


    For those cities you mention no reason why the likes of P&R wouldn't be a viable alternative to clogging up the cities roads with single occupancy cars. Can be served by high frequency bus routes in the short term, with scope for trams/metro longer term. Add in secure bike storage and you'd see a lot choosing not to drive into the city.

    This can already be seen where its been implemented

    As for Galway, anyone living and working inside the city boundary and driving, that takes a special kind of stupid given the distance you could cover in 30 mins walking or cycling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    High frequency bus routes?

    Is that when 3 buses come at once, after waiting 30 minutes plus after their scheduled slot per the timetable? They can't even get low frequency buses on time.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Car traffic is the biggest impediment to an efficient bus service though 🤷‍♂️


    Remove unnecessary car trips and you free up a load of capacity which can be further reallocated to PT/AT infrastructure, thereby making those modes even more attractive and freeing up further capacity which can be further reallocated to PT/AT infrastructure, thereby making those modes even more attractive and freeing up further capacity which can be further reallocated to PT/AT infrastructure, thereby making those modes even more attractive and freeing up further capacity

    See the pattern?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Varadkar reckons the current govt could be returned as-is

    A decade of a Green environment & transport minister, now that would be something interesting to see



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    He's not wrong. The green could hold a lot of power come the next time a government is formed. I don't see them being wiped out as some predict. I'd like to see it, but don't think it will happen



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,112 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    So the three present parties in government would publish their individual manifestos stating what they propose to do if elected to govern.

    Would it be in the foreword or in an addendum at the end of each manifesto that nothing in their manifestos really meant anything other than if they got the numbers they might cobble something together ?

    Varadkar is just attempting to play the FG card of scary SF.

    FG and FF could quite easily put a manifesto together that would appeal to both sets of their supporters and result in them getting transfers where they could pick up tail-end seats. The cobbling together idea would cost both seats.

    Post edited by charlie14 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    You mention Ryan should be reprimanded? Ryan should remember one thing - he’s elected to represent the people, not to go on a self centred ego trip.

    That goes for all politicians.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Well, Ryan has consistently and repeatedly lied about renewables giving us cheap energy and not one member of the media has called him on it yet.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Says an avid green masquerading as an independent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Agreed. And in my mind, Ryan is a joke of a politician. I really hope his political ‘career’ is shredded come the next election.

    Fingers X’d



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    They are rolling out rural public transport. I live in Ennis. The number and frequency of bus links to nearby towns and villages have increased rapidly in the past few years and we now have double decker coaches because the demand has increased

    Funding has finally been approved for an actual public transport service in the town which is due to open next year which will be a huge improvement. The western rail corridor is improving, not perfect but getting better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,392 ✭✭✭prunudo


    I think there are many even within his own party who feel the same. The phrase 'becareful what you wish for' comes to mind. The green party will become more diehard with him gone as leader.

    Which could probably be a good though in the long run as it be will mean they won't get votes from the general public only the fanatics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    And you have consistently blamed renewables for high energy prices when it's the high cost of Gas and oil that was solely responsible for the energy price increases we all saw in the past 2 years



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,244 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    For those cities you mention no reason why the likes of P&R wouldn't be a viable alternative to clogging up the cities roads with single occupancy cars. Can be served by high frequency bus routes in the short term, with scope for trams/metro longer term. Add in secure bike storage and you'd see a lot choosing not to drive into the city.


    Pretty much none of this is happening. CMATS in Cork was launched 3 years ago and identified 6 strategic P&R locations around the city. Literally nothing has happened since to progress them. And that's the point. The Green agenda is full of absolute spoofing.

    If the easier stuff can't get done then it's little wonder that big stuff like Metro, DART Underground etc, never see the light of day. Multiple decades and counting since those projects were first proposed.

    Post edited by namloc1980 on


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The only meaningful part of CMATS that has progressed is the suburban rail engineering works and that’s because the money is coming from Brussels and the money is contingent on it being spent within 1-2 years.

    Luas, BusConnects, northern distributor, southern distributor, Docklands access nowhere to be seem



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Literally nothing?

    I don't believe you.

    What are your realistic delivery timescales between the launch of a 20 year development plan and the delivery of the outcomes?

    It takes years of planning and consultations, you need to allow time for assesments and reports and public consultation and objections need to be investigated and then tenders need to be sent out....

    I don't know much about the cork plans, but the Ennis 2040 plans are starting a mini civil war in the town with every single interested party putting in comments and objections and trying to influence the project in their own favour.

    This is not 'the green agenda' being 'absolute spoofing'', it's politics in Ireland



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How so many fail to understand this basic fact is bewildering



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Are you sure I've blamed renewables on the high cost of gas, driven by EU policy by the way?

    Renewables, right now, can't deliver cheap energy. If you actually look at the real LCOE for renewables is a very expensive source of energy due to the requirements for spinning reserve, transmission system upgrades, and back-up generation. We may crack that particular nut in the future but we are some time from not relying on conventional plants yet.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    TikTok I seen it on, it was on Pearse Morgan show



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,112 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    And what exactly have renwables done to lower energy prices. Not a damn thing. Or for that matter greens here either. While people were calling on the government here to lower vat or excise duty greens were insisting on carbon tax increases going ahead. E.U. green policy, driven by Germany, played its part in those hgh energy prices with Germany using Putin`s gas as the base source for their transmission and castigating any country that didn`t follow their example.

    Greens could not give a rats behind on energy prices. It`s all to do with the ideology. You have only to look at Germany to see that. You would think that having played a major part in the fcuk up they would have learned something, but no, their solution to a greener environment ? Shut down their remaining nuclear plants that were providing 6% of their electricity and re-open coal burning plants to fill the gap.

    E.U. is not much better in that regard, happy to ignore that biomass that provides 60% of the blocs so called green energy produces more emissions than even coal regarding it as carbon neutral. But then Germany domestically does burn a lot of wood. Here we had greens coming up with evermore idiot ideas on legislation to prevent domestic households burning turf.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,244 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    You don't believe me??? Lol. I live here. I know nothing has been done. No Part 8 planning. No plans. Literally nothing. We still have the single P&R in Cork that was opened about 20 years ago. A further one was announced in 2006 but surprise surprise it never happened. Maybe you think that's ok, but 17 years and counting for a P&R is a tad on the long side don't you think? So all these long dated plans are just fantasy. Transport 21 launched in 2005 proposed multiple Metro lines, DART Underground, 7+ Luas lines.......we're still waiting.




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    But isn’t it the ‘planning and consultation’ process that’s delaying everything?



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Renewables not being able to bring down the high cost of gas is not the fault of renewables,

    If anything without renewables gas prices would have been much higher



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,112 ✭✭✭✭charlie14




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