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Aer Lingus Pilot Training Programme

  • 31-07-2023 9:59am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭Designator


    Heard about this fully sponsored Aer Lingus pilot training programme today, going to chance my arm and apply , no harm in trying. But curious if anyone knows any extra details about it? I know the training is 14 months in Spain and it says you get a small allowance while training but just wondering what this is exactly? It’s fine to get free training accommodation and meals but like myself if you have a mortgage to pay back home is this allowance going to be anything sufficient? Just curious

    Post edited by Tenger on


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Staunton96


    Allowance is minimal (you get accommodation and food), between 100-200 a week. So you won't be able to pay a mortgage - you'll need to save up for it I imagine. But go for it anyway



  • Registered Users Posts: 1 Nova160


    Would anyone know the pay scale in aer lingus for first officers



  • Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭Designator


    Starts at 70k rising to 90k and captains start around 130k rising to 180k



  • Posts: 0 Joey Easy Dirt


    They seem to be on a big drive to encourage more female candidates, I suppose to have a wider choice of suitable people. I believe the raining is in Jerez where the prevailing good clear weather speeds up, at least initial hour building.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭airy fairy



    Aer Lingus first officers are 45k to 55,520k.

    Info is available online.

    Ryanair is similar.

    I know someone personally who has recently taken a job with this type of salary.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭Designator


    I must have read different somewhere . That’s a pretty low salary for the job even if it is starting salary , train drivers are paid more



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭airy fairy


    I presume there must be a theory behind it somewhere , probably committment and how someone isn't being a pilot for the craic. It's a long hard slog, and long unpaid hours of training, both academically and in the skies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭sailing


    There is an incremental payscale in Aer lingus which starts at approx €55,000 basic salary for a newly qualified First Officer. This rises to a max of €206,000 basic salary for a Captain.

    You also earn sector pay, which is a payment for every flight that you complete. That would average an extra €10,000 per annum tax free for both a captain and First officer.

    You also earn a bonus for every hour you fly annually above 620 flying hours. So, if you fly a full 900 hours you can expect to earn a further €21,000 a year for a First Officer or €28,000 for a Captain.

    You will also receive a defined benefit pension which is worth a contribution by Aer Lingus to you of 21% of your basic salary annually.

    You will also receive an allowance of €60 per annual leave day you take and you will be paid for any time away from your home base.

    As a captain with 24 years total service as a pilot in the company you will earn approx €250,000 plus a further €29,000 in pension contributions. There is no differentiation between a long haul or short haul pilot. You all earn the same.

    As a newly qualified fresh First Officer you will earn approx €90,000.


    If you go down a path of becoming an instructor, either as a First Officer or Captain you are additionally remunerated.

    There is an ongoing pay process in progress at the moment where it would be expected that the above figures will rise by a moderate percentage. Pilot pay in the United States for example has just returned as the highest paid profession in the country, having recently overtook the Medical industry. This is in part due to a pilot shortage over there which hasn’t hit Europe as severely as yet. Many operators around Europe are increasing pay significantly at the moment.


    Its a good package for anyone interested in a flying career in Ireland. The competition for a place on a cadet scheme is intense, and only a very small percentage will be successful. From memory approx 5000 applied for 12 or so positions last time around.


    For anyone interested in the career it is welcome to have the opportunity to apply for a fully funded training programme which would normally cost well over €100,000 to complete on your own in a similar training organisation.

    Post edited by sailing on


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Staunton96


    Thanks for this message and detail you went into.

    I just want to point out though that as far as I'm aware, basic 55k would be true for a DEFO (non type-rated). This is not the case for cadets, who will be on considerably less to "pay back" the cost of the integrated training school in FTE. What that figure is exactly I don't know, but it's quite a way from the amount quoted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,428 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Any realistic chance of a fit, healthy 47yo with 6/6 vision, looking for a career change, getting on the programme?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Lustrum


    Just to correct some of this - the cadet scale starts at a little over €42k and you stay on it for a couple of years to essentially repay the cost of your training. As someone else pointed out, the DEFO scale is close to €55k, as a cadet you would join that at year 3 I think it is.


    Sector pay is split into taxable and non-taxable portions, and is different depending on the routes you fly ie. different rates for UK, European, Canaries and Transatlantic.

    The "bonus" pay figures are overstated in this post, if you max out as a first officer you're looking at about €18k, which is taxable.

    Pension and annual leave payments are correct.

    If you work yourself silly, you'll make about €90k after 5/6 years, no chance of getting near that when newly qualified.

    There's no point in going into this thinking you're going to be creaming it in straight away, you won't. It's great money after a good few years in the left seat, which at the moment is probably 10/12 years from joining the company.

    If you can, find someone who works for them and ask all your questions. Undoubtedly this is the best cadetship going in Ireland, and will get you the best flying job if you want to be based in Dublin.


    Best of luck to all who apply



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,908 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    slight tangent, my daughter (not school leaving age yet, but slowly getting there) finds the idea/ job of a pilot very interesting.

    My question though is whether the cadetship is limited to irish based candidates or can folks living abroad also apply? She has an irish passport in case they are just discriminating on basis of passport rather than residence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭Astral Nav


    It's not strictly Irish based, lots of nationalities there who came from elsewhere. Having an Irish or EU passport is the main thing.

    She's not old enough yet but AL are VERY keen to attract female candidates as is clear from the advertising.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 330 ✭✭giseva


    Having submitted my application and uploading my CV, I received a link to submit a formal application, and upload a CV again.

    This formal application has some questions about candidates education and flying experience, if any.

    I have a level 9 PGDip, yet the drop down menu doesn't give options in terms of the NFQ. I'd imagine the odds of getting a place is comparable to a lottery win so every detail counts.

    Although my qualification is at Masters level (30 creds short) I don't want to put Masters in case it goes against me. Similarly, I have a higher level than the other option of Bachelors degree so I don't want to select that either.

    There is also a yes/no question about aviation experience. I don't have commercial aviation experience yet I was a member of the Irish Air Corps for a number of years, working in a service support.

    The stress 😅, not what you want for a prospective pilot.

    Could anyone offer any guidance?



  • Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭Designator


    They advertise this as a position that’s for everyone and you don’t have to have any previous flying experience but from the questions and the online assessment it’s fairly clear that in reality they only want people that have previous flying experience or some sort of licence already. Disappointing



  • Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭CoisFharraige


    Not true whatsoever. They do this to collect the info because previously they did it in person at the group assessment stage.

    Flying experience is completely unnecessary, but could strengthen your application. It is just about the individual sitting in front of them and how they perform in the assessments. Previously people have gotten through with zero hours and with a PPL.

    Ádh mór gach duine!



  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Shoden


    Any idea when the assessment results will come out?



  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Shoden


    Also, how did people find the assessments? Found the verbal reasoning tough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12 Michael132


    Verbal reasoning was tricky, I also found deductive logical thinking tricky but got the hang of it half way though. The rest I found grand. Fingers crossed now and wait till the end of the month or early next month for results. GL all



  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Shoden


    Think everything else went well for me except verbal reasoning. That part didn't go well at all.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 330 ✭✭giseva


    Some of the questionnaire part threw me a bit. Hopefully not too long of a wait for results. Fantastic opportunity for the few that make it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭Beersmith


    I applied weeks ago but didn't get anything about an assessment. When did this happen?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 330 ✭✭giseva


    They are probably still working through applications. I received a link to the online assessments Friday gone, and was given 72hrs to complete from time of email.



  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Shoden


    Is there any other conversation going on about this elsewhere?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12 Michael132


    Not from what i can find, 1 or 2 comments in the 2019 thread. V quite this round



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭GTTDI GOD


    Just over on pprune, that’s the only other conversation I can see.



  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Shoden


    Thanks, I'll look for the conversation on pprune.



  • Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭CoisFharraige


    Anyone hear anything



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭GTTDI GOD


    We won’t hear anything for another week or 2



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,251 ✭✭✭MarkN


    Declines gone out today.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2 BOR95


    did anyone get a rejection email ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2 BOR95


    Did anyone get a rejection email?



  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Shoden


    Not yet anyway, so fingers crossed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭GTTDI GOD


    Just got an email for invite! Hard luck to those that haven’t got through this time, keep at it! This is my 6th attempt!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,251 ✭✭✭MarkN


    Fair play to you. Got my PFO last week. Had been practicing the cut-e for months but was my first time.

    Best of luck with the rest of it!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1 Irishhumanbeing


    Anyone know what will be involved in the group assessment? What kind of questions etc will be asked/ if it will be similar to the online tests we did?


    Thanks in advance!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1 TestPilot007


    How did we all get on? Few tricky points in the final interview for me but overall an enjoyable day and it left me with a good impression of the company.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39 AnthonyGrady


    Hello, great to see someone who passed the tests!

    Just wondering have you previous flying experience or what is it you think that made you progress in the process?

    Would love any tips for the future as its really hard to find people who have succeeded in this!

    Thanks!



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Staunton96


    I know many who got through and almost all had PPLs, the one that didn't had hours under her belt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,251 ✭✭✭MarkN


    Good luck to all involved




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    Just curious, with all the testing, is there a bias towards females now i.e. could a female have a better chance of getting in, even if performing less well in the tests, or is it black and white at that point i.e. encourage females, but no special treatment following application?



  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭StephenRy30


    Anyone know what a roster would be like for a pilot? Do you get much time off or do you work crazy hours . Do you spend alot of time away from family? . Would you ever be able to work 1 week on 1 off ?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,198 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    Most airline crew only actually fly 3/4 days a week, sometimes 5. Followed by 3/4 days off. This varies airline to airline.

    The days you are working can be long, and can mean staying overnight somewhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    Aer Lingus standard short haul roster is 5/3 (5 on, 3 off). Days can be long, especially during the summer roster period. Part time is available in seniority, on each fleet and in each seat, but you have to be quite senior to get it. 1 week on/ 1 week off doesn't exist currently and unlikely to do so in the foreseeable. Overnights are part of the roster, but there's not that many and you can bid for (or not for) them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    There's a concerted effort to attract females to apply, in the same way that Aer Lingus are continuing to push the cadetship - they want people who would perhaps not consider flying (whether for financial or other reasons) to be in a position to become an airline pilot. Once the application is in, the same standards apply regardless of who you are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭basill


    To put more meat on the bones. When under training you can be rostered up to 6 consecutive days eg: as a new joiner, 320 to 330 CCQ or command upgrade for example etc. As stated above the short haul roster is a fixed pattern 5 on 3 off. There is a bidding system for pilots for work. It has been called many things. The most polite would be a preferential bidding system. You can bid for trips, overnights, destination countries, doubles, singles - pretty much anything. More senior folk would be expected to get more of their bids than a new joiner or junior colleague. Nothing is guaranteed with the roster apart from the days off you are due. The 5 on 3 off pattern is subject to "flex" which you can bid for or be directed to in inverse seniority. A flex roster can reduce your days off to 2 and last a full roster period (4 weeks). So you could be doing weeks of 5 on 2 off. Then you pick up where your 5/3 pattern would have been once the flex roster is completed. Some people get away with easy flex rosters and others find themselves fatigued irrespectrive of which seat they are in. So the "fixed pattern" sales blurb is a bit of a misnomer if you ask me as you could be dumped with a flex roster. Having some seniority might insulate you somewhat from its affects but eventually everyone has to take their turn and do flex which can destroy any long term plans you might have had. You can swap duties which might dig you out of a hole if required but is not guaranteed obviously and sometimes easier said than done eg: trying to get off on a weekend, or swapping during the summer when many people will be maxed out on hours so the swap may not be legal.

    The 330 is a random roster. You can bid for trips, destinations, days off and just about any combination thereof. An east coast trip is rostered a minimum of two days off. West coast 4 days. The 330 does a fair amount of flying in europe during the summer with morning rotations to Malaga and Faro before returning to Dublin and heading to the USA again in the afternoon. Summer 330 rosters can be killers. Up to 6 days work with early morning starts to Malaga followed by an East Coast trip to JFK, BOS or ORD wouldn't be all that uncommon. Its not uncommon for the 330 to be tasked to cover for breakdowns if an airframe is idle and crews available across the short haul network. Winter is quiet for the most part so the rosters are a lot lighter. Some lucky folk have been seeing the RHS of the 330 inside a few years. Command on 330 is well over 20 years. I think its actually closer to 25 but if you are joining later in life then bear that in mind.

    Part time is generally available in the RHS and from what I hear has historically been undersubscribed. The part time days are attached to your normal "free days". An example would be 4 on 4 off with the associated salary drop. In the LHS on the 320 (short haul) you won't see it without 20 years of service presently.



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