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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,114 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The mass production and economy of scale idea has turned out to be a bit of a myth as well.

    Wind turbine manufactures last year reported billions in losses, and the Swedish firm Vattenfall have pulled out of the Norfolk Boreas wind farm contract and taking a loss of £415 M. (€480 M) because to continue would lose them even more money due to rising costs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Ramasun


    ICE transmissions have moving parts which wear over time and eventually fail. Or if you drive like me the operator causes the failure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Yes, sure isn’t there another ‘green fuelled ’ increase September 1 & AGAIN 31 October?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    its true. There’s no ‘but’ about it. There are still interconnectors and interconnector flows post-brexit. These are bid in the intraday auctions

    Where are these headlines about the balancing price?

    The reason generators are concerned if the balancing price goes above the strike price is that they have to make a big payout. But this has basically nothing to do with the wholesale price.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Name one thing that has moving parts that don't fail. I've a box of pens here in the press beside me that have a tiny ball in them to let out ink and many don't work. Is that a notorious problem? A notorious problem is something that breaks in a majority of transmissions constantly. There isn't anything I've heard of. There isn't many vehicles off the road because of transmission failures.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Ok. Think about it this way. The EU needed electricity. They used all of the renewables available and got the other 63% of our electricity from fossil fuels and nuclear . The price of gas was already going up because there was a shortage of supply.

    We couldn't magic extra gas or Nuclear out of nowhere, so if we didn't have so much renewables the competition for the available gas supplies would have driven gas prices even higher.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    They are starting now, and BeSS is one of the fastest growing techniques world wide



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    I'm not disagreeing with you, pricing is complex. It is more than just the DA and ID prices.

    There hasn't been recent headlines in Ireland but the continent is awash with extremely high and extremely low/negative prices lately. LinkedIn etc is constantly bombarding me with such headlines.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Yeah I get ya. Of course, if we didn't have renewables we'd have more nuclear (I'm thinking Germany here), and us here wouldn't have shut down the coal and peat stations.

    There would be an extra gas demand, but there's no shortage of it thankfully. Anything not coming via pipes is being shipped into LNG terminals (how we fixed in that regard?). Then that brings competition as LNG being brought in such quantities hasn't happened before. I'm not convinced competition is always the way to lower prices (see exhibit A, Ireland power suppliers)



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Overall impression is that these aren't green policies but rather a whole separate tax regime.

    It is, in essence, punishment with the hope of changing behaviour.

    Should be encouragement, of which there's some.

    Carrots instead of sticks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Who remembers the big drive for AD plants? Well the NGOs are bringing one to court after it's got planning permission




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    I want cheaper, reliable energy. Anyway, why should renewables be exempt while making out like bandits? It's alloney coming out of our pockets at the end of the day.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    Germany just replaced gas with coal. They already had coal supplying electricity and when gas went down they just used more coal as it was already available. Germany still managed to reduce the overall CO2 while burning more coal which is impressive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,393 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Gone up approx 8c/litre in the past week at the garages around me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    This is not just factually incorrect. It's conceptually nonsensical.

    Are you saying there was an over supply of gas while gas prices were surging over the past 2 years?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,593 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    Ireland has a supply chain choke-point when if comes to gas, the country is almost entirely dependent on supply via Moffat in Scotland. The supply from Corrib is declining, no more exploration is permitted, there is no 30 day storage buffer for gas, there are no LNG facilities in Ireland. To secure a regular supply local companies employ hedging strategies that mean paying a higher price, those depending on short term supply contracts have left the Irish & UK markets. We are at the end of the supply line for gas and other hydro-carbon products, and a deliberate Irish government policy to enforce that choke-point. Once there is surplus gas in the system and easy finance, the prices are low. Prior to Putin Russian invasion of Ukraine the price of gas had already risen, caused by 1. A cold spring in 2021 (more gas burned), low wind in Summer 2021 (more gas burned), a rush into the into the market by in September 2021 to secure gas supply for the Winter. Companies who did not have the finance to buy gas on short term contracts, immediately failed. Interest rates have continued to rise since then, no more cheap finance, it is all about long term supply contracts.

    Due to the unreliable nature of wind and solar, the electrical grid is entirely dependent on gas (and coal) for stability. The batteries are storage, they are needed to manage short-term supply imbalances agrevated by unreliable generation. During the cold snap in December 2022, those batteries needed to be charged with with combinations generated by burning gas, coal, diesel and imports. Filling the horizon with wind turbines and fields with solar panels does not work either, aside from the uneconomic cost, the batteries and pipe to/from them become the choke-point.

    The unreliable top up generators are getting a free ride, because of the way the market is structured they get the upside of the high gas prices and without having to guarantee supply 24x7. Shutdown the Moffat line (e.g. gas supply emergency caused by adverse Winter conditions) and the mass delusion that an electrical grid and home heating can be run using unreliable top-up generators gets blown out of the water quickly.

    Repeat after me: Wind and solar generation are entirely dependent on hydrocarbons. As proof even small scale projects can't do it: El Hierro in Canary Islands, King Island in Australia. Someone decided it was a good idea to introduce wind turbines to the Galapagos islands and let the locals buy EVs only. Loads of fanfare a decade ago, but what was the story in 2022? you can listen to or read about it here.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,235 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    I like how the 'green' shills of the RTE Newsroom refer to "protesters" disrupting the World Cycling Championships in Scotland.

    It's going to get harder and harder for them to ram their politics down our throats when extinction zealots are gluing themselves to critical infrastructure.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,788 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Why do people drive along the M4/M7? Because not everyone lives near a train station to be able to get a train. And even if you live near a train station, it might not be practical to take the train as it might not bring you close to your workplace. Busses don't go everywhere. And if it does bring you close to your workplace, it might not suit your hours. Or if they have to travel between sites as part of their work? There could be a load of reasons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,788 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I have to correct you on something there.

    The Greens didn't add an additional 5% to petro/diesel. The FFG Government did that.

    I'd be taring FF and FG just as much as I would the Greens. They are all a pack of .............................



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,393 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Missed it, what way was it reported? Really have to question the mindset of these groups, surely blocking a cycle race is as big of an own goal as they can get. They're already loosing the public in England by constantly blocking roads, even to buses, cyclists and emergency vehicles.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,235 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    They reported that the race was halted due to protests and showed cyclists talking to each other in a huge back-up.

    Like all spurious movements made up of mostly privileged children, they all end up fighting internally and imploding. The green movement will be no different.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Are you saying gas prices are not down 90% yoy?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭Jizique


    It seems to be a policy forced on the hard working people who have shift patterns or who can't work from home with the target of making rural living and car transport unaffordable



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Ah, those loons who used the expoxy to glue themselves to the road are firmly in the FOFO stage right now. I hope it really really hurts getting that concrete and tarmacadam chiseled off their hands over the next few days.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,114 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Like everything in life, and especially for Germany and emissions in general, the devil is in the details.

    According to Enerdata even though German electricity consumption dropped by 4% in 2022, the use of gas did not go down. It increased by 1.7%.

    They were getting 49.8% less electricity from nuclear in 2022, (their remaining nuclear power plants did not shut until Dec 2022 which would have helped with emissions), so while the used more domestically sourced coal, imported hard coal increased by 8%. So it stands to reason that coal was used to replace nuclear as their use of gas did not decrease. There are a few other issue with Germany and coal that even German greens have problems with when it comes to the environment. The German village of Lutzerath and the 690 sq kilometer open pit mine of Cerrejon in Colombia being two.

    When it comes to German emissions, the elephant in the room is biomass which supplied 8% of their electricity for 2022, and where their domestic use of firewood and wood pellets practically doubled (as did the price) in 2022.

    We are all supposed to believe that biomass is carbon neutral, but in reality it is not. The Partnership for Policy Integrity`s research showed "Biomass burning power plants emit 150% the CO2 of coal and 300% - 400% the CO2 of gas". Now I have seen figures lower than those, but I have yet to see any that say biomass produces less CO2 than coal or gas.

    As I said, when it comes to German emissions, or indeed E.U. emissions, the devil is in the detail when you look under the bonnet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    Here mate, honestly you spent days talking about 3.5 bn which you made up, I don’t have the time or inclination anymore

    Post edited by ZookeeperDub on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,114 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    As I have said before, you really do need to grow up and stop acting like a sulky teenager.



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