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Sex for free rent: Why is this so wrong between consenting adults?

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    #362
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,098 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120943207#Comment_120943207

    Indeed, I grew up in bedsit land and it suited a great many people. Did you ever live in a bedsit yourself? Or would that be below you?



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    #363
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,204 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    There were enough "females only" rentals before sex for rent became a thing. Why is this kind of discrimination tolerated?



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    #364
    Raysin
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭Raysin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120939146#Comment_120939146

    People don't withhold sex, they choose if they want to have sex or not. Something is only withheld if it already owned by another person, and nobody owns a right to another persons body or an entitlement that overrules their right to refuse.

    These sex arrangements can't be contracted. Consent is given on a instance to instance basis, if you're interested you consent, or not if you aren't. A contract that demands sex regardless of whether or not the person wants it in that instance is a license to rape, which is why it can never be legal as it denies the right to refuse. If consent is only given on the understanding that the tenant will lose their home, it's not consent, it's rape.

    This whole situation is so black and white in term of exploitation that it beggars belief it even needs discussion.



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    #365
    Ezeoul
    Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120943231#Comment_120943231

    It's not. Those kind of advertisments are not allowed any more.

    Anyone advertising a room or house to rent cannot specify "female only" or "male only" or "professionals only", as it is discriminatory.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/explainer-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-housing-ad-rules/38428801.html




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    #366
    Manc-Red_
    Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭Manc-Red_


    Not everyone one of these chancers are male.

    Friend of mine had an experience in Wicklow were the woman used her key to come into the “rented” flat and give him 2 months for free which was excepted.

    Problem for her is that she ran into a guy that we call “Blue” for a reason and she never came back with such offers again.

    Better Born Lucky Than Rich.



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    #367
    chrisd2019
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭chrisd2019


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120941332#Comment_120941332

    Real life is not this landlord v tenant battle that the media and the left wing failed republican politicians would like to portray.



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    #368
    chrisd2019
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭chrisd2019


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120941389#Comment_120941389

    Boards is just like all other online chat boards, nothing special about its members, all with different views and experiences, though some believe theirs to be more "correct".



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    #369
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120943133#Comment_120943133

    You don't have to go to them all - this sums it up

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/doctoral-thesis-confirms-poor-outcomes-produced-by-our-family-court-system-1.1625873

    or if you want to read the full thesis

    https://repository.wit.ie/2825/1/thesis_ROS_WITLIB_201405final.pdf




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    #370
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 24,026 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120943476#Comment_120943476

    That manipulation involving sexual favours from a position of advantage, over a person at a disadvantage, is against common law and natural justice, is right.

    There is no debating that, its a settled position.

    If existing crimes against the person and sexual offences legislation don't cover this specifically enough to secure convictions, then specific amendments or specific standalone legislation is required and the delivery of that ought not be long or complicated.

    There is no argument here. People must not be exploited and this is what the phenomenon is, criminal sexual exploitation.

    The State can and will respond to it, on behalf of the people, and it will be punished.



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    #371
    hymenelectra
    Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    An infrastructurally impoverished country with insane levels of demand for the most basic of necessities, coupled with a class of people who control those necessities.

    What could go wrong?


    ...is what the government and their profiteering luvvies never once cared to think about as they set out with purpose to create these circumstances, and continue to do so with increasing abandon.

    Gobble gobble gobble.



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    #372
    Markus Antonius
    Registered Users Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120941043#Comment_120941043

    Misinterpret in whatever way makes you feel you have the moral highground

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120941085#Comment_120941085

    Yes, god forbid we a discuss a topic hot in the media and politics at the moment.

    We should broaden the current "hate speech" laws to include boards threads @John_Rambo is not comfortable with.



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    #373
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users Posts: 13,111 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120939973#Comment_120939973
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120944571#Comment_120944571

    How did I misinterpret this ? You are conflating Womens rights, with her body being used in an unequal barter situation and calling it 'pleasing a man '?

    It's pretty offensive really .



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    #374
    purifol0
    Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120943274#Comment_120943274

    Aha, bless. There is an entirely legal & regulated adult industry that proves this argument completely false.

    But to completely destroy this argument I'm going to change "sex" to "labour/work"

    "People don't withhold labour, they choose if they want to work or not. Something is only withheld if it already owned by another person, and nobody owns a right to another persons labour or an entitlement that overrules their right to refuse. "

    So if an independent porn starlet gets $$$ for doing X and on the day decides to only do Y, she can be fired and sued for breach of contract.


    You signed a contract as an adult. As long as you did so without duress by another party, you either fulfill the terms, or you deal with the consequences. That in this case would be losing the roof over your head.


    If you or anyone else think this contract would be abhorrent and immoral wait til you find out about marriage and divorce!



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    #375
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,659 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120944571#Comment_120944571

    I'm 100% comfortable with the discussion but I'm not comfortable with amount of men that think it's ok to use this type of leverage for sexual gratification. As pointed out earlier on, plenty of slimebags happy with their pervy arrangement here on boards.ie and not one girl or boy on the receiving end piping up here to say it's a great deal. The anecdotal tall stories are very very one sided.

    If for some odd reason you're unhappy with my condemnation of men using their advantage to coerce girls & boys in to sex acts for a place to live report my postings, ensure I'm censored and if I get banned so be it. Go for it.



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    #376
    Markus Antonius
    Registered Users Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120944733#Comment_120944733

    You want this discussion thread closed for some bizarre reason. How many sex for rent ads have you seen so far in the thread?



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    #377
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,659 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120944849#Comment_120944849

    Care to nail your colours to the mast? Balls out?



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    #378
    purifol0
    Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120944733#Comment_120944733

    "not one girl or boy on the receiving end piping up here to say it's a great deal"

    Well now not many women like to point out that they can simply **** their way out of not paying for things yet they do this every day for lots of other things anyway. The vast majority of men do not have this option. I guarantee you if this was legal, and you named and shamed landlords who would accept sex instead of cash, they would be awash with offers. Private offers.


    Ironically The current housing situation vastly benefits and indeed prioritises women over men anyway. The many, many govt.s we have had that have created a market with so little supply for an ever growing demand was largely voted in by women to boot.



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    #379
    Ezeoul
    Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Wow. Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any more disturbing..



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    #380
    newmember2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭newmember2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120944619#Comment_120944619

    How did I misinterpret this ?

    Unequal barter situation?

    Really, what are you talking about? You literally quoted what the poster said and still totally misrepresented it. You find a woman using her own body as she sees fit to be 'pretty offensive'. wtf?

    Try your best reading what's at the link below. You might gain a useful skill.

    https://www.colorincolorado.org/article/reading-comprehension-skills-english-language-learners



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    #381
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users Posts: 13,111 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    I think it is you who doesn't understand . Nor can you read what is clearly posted .

    Not surprised really that you think you have anything to teach me given the level of misogyny here .

    Woman are not there to ' please men ' .

    If you knew any you would understand that .



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    #382
    purifol0
    Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    This whole thread has left me reeling at the low IQ outrage and indignation.

    People making statements such as consent cannot occur because of the power imbalance.

    So in that case how do you justify landlords charging extortionate "market rate" prices per bedroom room in the house they bought back in the 80's!

    Private sector renters sharing houses well into their 30's handing over most of their take home pay or otherwise becoming actually homeless (largely because they are men, and men don't get much of anything for their taxes, especially not social housing.)

    By the exact same logic how is that an acceptable consensual contract???

    I'll tell you why, 2 reasons:

    1. -BECAUSE THE STATE TAKES A CUT! Each rented house back in 2018 gave the same amount of cash to the state as a full time worker on the average industrial wage!!!
    2. Societal problems are only real problems when they affect women. Men are always treated as second class citizens, even though they are the primary source of taxes and real labour.
    Post edited by purifol0 on


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    #383
    charlie_says
    Registered Users Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    The government doesn't get a cut of the action so....



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    #384
    purifol0
    Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Ok let me break it down for you. If you think there cannot be consent since there is a "power imbalance", then how is a rental agreement acceptable at all???

    Many people (and yes that means women) would rather pay with sex than half their take home pay.


    Who are you or the state to tell them they can't choose to do that if that payment is accepted?


    If you believe they can't consent to pay with sex, why can they consent with most of their bloody wages instead???


    The answer is you find it distasteful, I do too but I'm not naieve or paternalistic.

    The law should be there to protect tenants from predatory landlords yes, but not to interfere with private decisions made by consenting adults.


    You are just another person that believes women should be denied agency when it offends your morals.



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    #385
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,507 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120945096#Comment_120945096

    Rental agreements are legal written contracts, they are notarized, they are legally enforceable, the details of the leases are open to being adjudicated, in court, with the full weight of law and jurisprudence. Money is fungible and landlords are not to unlawfully discriminate against tenants or offer them different rates of rent based on their sex/race/religion/etc.; it is because of the inherent power landowners have over others that tenant law is such a large part of any legal system in its own right.

    How do you oversee and adjudicate a sex for housing arrangement? What are the checks and balances? Where are the receipts?



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    #386
    Musicrules
    Registered Users Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Most people who watched the program on RTÉ were disgusted and looked at the people involved as scumbags. Unfortunately, some men watched it and thought that it was a great idea. They see nothing wrong with exploitation. Not surprising that the absolute creeps on the show have gained support on boards.ie. The incel movement existed long before it was called that but it's definitely growing. The amount of support that disgusting, rapey behaviour receives is very disturbing.



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    #387
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120944733#Comment_120944733

    Men and women not girls and boys

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #388
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120945096#Comment_120945096

    Completely agree with this.

    It's not a black and white situation. We can hold both positions at the same time -- that the law must protect people against predatory landlords, but that the law can also permit private transactions between consenting adults.

    This broadbrush approach, where we just ban everything we don't personally like, should be thrown out the window. It almost always causes unnecessary and preventable harm.



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    #389
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120945286#Comment_120945286

    This is absurd.

    The law can't protect sex as a transaction for rent. Its impossible because Rental income is subject to income tax. Rental contracts are not "private transactions". They have not been "private transactions" for many decades now. They are subject to various state regulation including income tax, registering with RTB etc.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #390
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,574 ✭✭✭jackboy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120945336#Comment_120945336

    What will inevitably happen now is that such landlords will receive the normal rent rates and then return some of this in the form of cash to eliminate the money trail. That will put it closer to the realms of straight prostitution which will be far more difficult to prove with no direct evidence. I don’t think changes in the law will reduce these practices unfortunately.



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    #391
    BrianD3
    Registered Users Posts: 8,375 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    The OP was looking for an explanation, not a sermon. "Because it's immoral" is not an explanation.

    Humans are animals and as with other animals, the human herd is disgusted by what it deems to be low value (ugly, short, physically weak etc.) male animals. It doesn't want these men reproducing and weakening the herd with their genes. Landlords who forgo rent in lieu of sex in a blatant manner are by definition, low value men who are seen as going against nature.

    As can be seen in this thread, the visceral reaction to these men is to call them grubby, greasy, rapey, sleazy, creepy, perverts. Similar story with old, rich men who date much younger women or men who purchase sex from prostitutes - they are lambasted for being unable to date a woman so have to buy one and are called creepy losers.

    An average man may enter into a more subtle arrangement where he starts dating someone who moves into HIS house but doesn't contribute much towards the running of the house. I know several couples like this. Are they bartering "love" for accommodation?

    A Chad landlord (Chadlord) won't forgo rent money for sex. He gets his money and sex as he has women lining up to ride him. Also, a top tier Chad might possibly find a female landlord willing to trade accommodation for sex. I know of one such case and nobody bats an eyelid because it's "different" when the sexes are reversed.

    In reality, many people are not concerned about power imbalances or vulnerable people - as evidenced by the numerous examples of abuses that are tolerated in society. People don't care about these unless it affects them directly or if they see an opportunity for virtue signalling or if it triggers something in their primitive brain.



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