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RWC23 Warmups - Ireland v Italy, Sat 5th Aug, KO 8PM - TV: RTÉ2 and RTÉ Player, Amazon Prime Video

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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,266 ✭✭✭✭phog


    He's a better bench option than Byrne in any game that Sexton starts.

    He'll make the plane, the question is does he start if Sexton isn't available



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,756 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He's not competing with our starting wingers though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Both Stockdale and Earls both were pretty poor yesterday to be honest. I'd love to get a proper look at Nash in one of the games. I think he's quality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    1 cap at 10 against the Maori and a subs appearance yesterday

    Two starts against the Maori and one against NZ 'A', all at 10. That's pretty much the same international pedigree as Coombes, fwiw.

    It would be a surprise if Frawley made the 33 but not a shock (to me anyway).

    I'd expect Byrne to start against England but the 22 jersey will be very interesting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,531 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    In fairness, Coombes has a humungous body of work as an 8 at high level club rugby at least. What you mentioned is essentially Frawley’s entire cv at 10.

    i could see him coming as a utility back tho.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭bartkingcole




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,756 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,586 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    Being involved is no use if you make the number of mistakes Stockdale made last night. He was a hail Mary for the squad to begin with so can't see him making the plane now



  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭letsbefair


    In fairness to Frawley it was his first cap yesterday. I think they will have another look at him. Don't forget there is a lot happening in camp that none of us are aware of.Still wide open for the last few places.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,531 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    They probably will although im not sure they should at 10.

    There are 160 minutes left. If its going to be Byrne or Crowley, i’d want them to get them as many minutes as possible.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭Ribs1234


    Farrell’s reaction (shown on tv) after Earl’s missed tackle led to an Italian try suggests Earls will not get past 100 caps this year.

    Does Stockdale get to blame rustiness and get another shot? I’m don’t think he’s ironed out his weaknesses.

    Frawley played very well when he sat into 10, including a disallowed try where he beat the defender (something our wingers were failing to do).

    Casey was the big winner yesterday. Great to see the urgency he brought.

    the hail to OGara brigade (dominant in the media unfortunately) are already talking up the Crowley performance as if it was perfect. Just an example: a high cross field kick when it is earls as receiver against two defenders is a poor call by Crowley even if the beautifully weighted kick lands on the “helipad”. Brilliantly executed but the wrong play. Yes he didn’t mess up, so might make the squad to ensure wins against Romania and Tonga, but he is not putting pressure on Byrne yet (who is more experienced at higher levels and less error prone).

    Very disappointing for the coach that so few improved their chances or put any pressure on the first team. He must have hoped for a few late bolters.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Yeah that's all 100% correct but none of it has seemed to bother Farrell in the past.

    I think if we see Frawley on the bench against England, it's a live issue. If not, he's done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,531 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    True. I would be surprised but honestly i was surprised he even got the full half ij this one. He has never really shown in games what Farrell loves in him. But yea id agree if he is the back up next week at 10, its a live issue.

    I think most likely though he probably comes as 33rd man either way. He can play 4 positions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,531 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    I think its unfair to directly compare as Frawley played with the changed changed team after subs so its not really the same.

    In saying that, I really do not see how anyone watches that and thinks frawley was anywhere close to crowley. That was a very assured performance.

    I will say that athletically Frawley looks special as a 10. He looks like a centre playing 10 which is interesting.

    Edit: i also thought the combination of crowley at 15 and him at 10, and vice versa would be very interesting. I’m not sure if frawley has ever considered leaving leinster but them together at munster would be interesting.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    the hail to OGara brigade (dominant in the media unfortunately) are already talking up the Crowley performance as if it was perfect

    This gave me a chuckle considering what’s been said about Harry Byrne and Sam Prendergast by some in the media during Farrell’s tenure.

    But I don’t think I’ve heard a single person claim Crowley’s performance was perfect.

    And I don’t really see how anyone can have seen that game come to the conclusion that Frawley seemingly played better than Crowley tbh…



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,152 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    I take the point that Farrell sees Frawley as an outhalf, but I can't see any way he gets ahead of either Byrne or Crowley.

    Picture the 10-22 pairing where Sexton gets injured and we face meaningful opposition. You'd be left with either:

    Byrne-Frawley

    or

    Crowley-Frawley

    I just can't see any coach being more confident in either of the above scenarios than in a pairing of Crowley and Byrne.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Let me preface this by saying I don't think Frawley is a particularly good out half and unless he improves greatly, I hope he isn't part of the succession plan for Leinster.

    But I have this nagging feeling that Farrell is seeing something we're not.

    Like, he called up Frawley for rounds 4 and 5 of the 6N, literally as soon as he was back from long term injury and when he wasn't really needed for cover. That was a week after Crowley had got a grand total of two minutes off the bench in Rome.

    Maybe those two things are connected, maybe they're not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,152 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    the hail to OGara brigade (dominant in the media unfortunately) are already talking up the Crowley performance as if it was perfect. Just an example: a high cross field kick when it is earls as receiver against two defenders is a poor call by Crowley even if the beautifully weighted kick lands on the “helipad”. Brilliantly executed but the wrong play. Yes he didn’t mess up, so might make the squad to ensure wins against Romania and Tonga, but he is not putting pressure on Byrne yet (who is more experienced at higher levels and less error prone).

    This one really is a doozy. You took one of Crowley's key strengths relative to Byrne, that is, his combined awareness and skills to unpick a set defense with an off-the-cuff play, and tried to use it as a stick to beat him with. And from an article which went to some lengths to emphasize how effective Crowley was with much lower-risk plays prior to the one you highlight. Bonus points for also painting it as part of a broader media conspiracy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,152 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Gah, I quoted @aloooof

    Sorry about that, should have been @Ribs1234



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Fair to say if we’re not on the same page, we’re certainly page-adjacent.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,152 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    But I have this nagging feeling that Farrell is seeing something we're not.

    It's quite simple. He sees in Frawley an out-half of near similar stature to himself. Less a case of him analyzing what value this might bring to an extended world-cup squad. More an indirect message to his comparatively undersized biological son that he will only ever see him as a failed end-product of his genetic contribution.



  • Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭bartkingcole


    Which is kind of ironic given that many in 2011 bashed Kidney over the head because he rewarded experience (ROG) to the detriment of Ireland (Sexton).



  • Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭bartkingcole




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,756 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Not ironic or a remotely comparable situation.

    Sexton, in case you missed it, played in and was integral to Ireland's last competitive match/series. He remains easily our best 10 and one of our best players. He needs to prove he is fit, that is about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    We need Sexton fit and sharp to win the World Cup. If he is, we will win. If not and we have to turn to Byrne, I think he has shown that he's not up to it when the pressure comes on and if we're anyway on the back foot. That we haven't established an alternative for him is poor planning but all irrelevant if Sexton's ready to go.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,571 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    So if sextons fit we win the world cup?

    Was he not fit the last few times?



  • Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭bartkingcole


    Do you really think we will win the World Cup if Sexton is fit?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    It's not just about Sexton! We won the 6 Nation's, beat New Zealand twice away. We have the best team in the World. We're going to win the World Cup.

    But, if Sexton is injured, Farrell will pick Byrne. Then we will not win the World Cup. It's our weakest back up position. To be depending on a 37 year old is not good planning but no one will care if he remains fit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Yes! This is our time. The Southern Hemisphere teams are below the level they have been previously. We're the best team in Europe. We've destroyed New Zealand away from home. We're the best team in the World. I don't see why we shouldn't expect to win the World Cup. The players are expecting to win.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,756 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    All the planning in the world can't magic players out of thin air.



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