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The government is hoovering up too much housing - the private working taxpayer is hurting

135

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭coolbeans


    "...can rent privately easily." You haven't a clue about the rental situation in this country if that's what you think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,951 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    They can afford to rent in templemore or buy a house in templemore on a Garda salary.

    It's the big cities where they cannot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭coolbeans


    There are two houses to rent in Templemore atm. Garda can't just magic up houses out of nowhere. You don't seem to get that the housing problems are nationwide and not confined to the "big cities."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,951 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭coolbeans


    Blithe dismissal of real problems. Righteous but clueless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,951 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Nope. They had very cheap rent and were lucky, they should have saved money and can afford to buy a house.

    Gardai in big cities cannot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭coolbeans


    I can tell you have no real experience of these problems because you seem to think you have all the answers but yet you don't. I pointed out the rental property shortage in Templemore and you respond that they should just buy then. That's a really clueless response that lacks any empathy or understanding.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,240 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Crimea river...

    The United States was not among the top five, with an hourly wage of $16.44.According to a Euspert post based on data from Insider Monkey and various nursing polls, the top five countries for 2016 are Denmark, Australia, Ireland, the United States, and Luxembourg. According to Euspert, the average yearly salaries in those countries were $54,000, $56,000, $64,000, $70,000, and $82,000, respectively. Based on a 2080-hour work year, the average hourly wage in Denmark was $25.96, $26.92 in Australia, $30.77 in Ireland, $33.65 in the United States, and $39.42 in Luxembourg.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 89,029 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    The amount of red tape, issues etc., getting planning permission for a build would put anyone off

    There needs to be some help for lower income, working class with getting homes either buying or renting, is there a rent to buy scheme?

    If there was an GE tomorrow I haven't a clue who to vote as none appeal, offer any good solutions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    David McWilliams wrote an interesting article that was in the Irish Times on Saturday. Basically the State is not providing the services it needs to for a population that has grown very dramatically. And there's likely to be a serious backlash unless the gaps are plugged very quickly.


    I hope I'm wrong, but I think McWilliams is on the money, the country is fraying at the seams, poor hospitals, no houses to rent, ordinary working people struggling financially. And the worst thing is all this is the case when there is full employment. People are disillusioned already; if the economy dips the social order will be under serious pressure.


    Immigration is the root problem, the population has grown too fast. That's not an anti-immigrant statement btw, it's a statement of the very obvious.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,951 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Do you have any idea how much rent they paid for that opw house? I do. Basically nothing. That's why they were living in it, we all would if we had the chance.

    I know exactly what the issues are around homelessness and lack of supply, took me 5 months to find my current rental, my friend and her family are at risk from homelessness, and the massive shortage of houses to buy means that I can't find anywhere to purchase. There are literally thousands of people who are sleeping on friends couches, parents spare rooms, families being split up and those are not even being counted in the homeless figures of over 12,000. There are whole families living in one bedroom in hotels.

    There is a massive crisis, this Garda that had cheap rent in templemore really isn't any kind of victim of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,951 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    No it's not. These problems all existed before the recent increase of refugees.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    In fairness, there's no mention of refugees in the post to which you are responding.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,951 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    So why did you respond in the way that you did?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 261 ✭✭Fox Tail


    All good points.

    The true, "own door homeless" that are off the offical list but are sofa surfing or living with parents and relatives (out of necessity, not choice) etc is completley ignored by the state.

    Effectivley, you only appear on a homeless list when you can demonstrably put your hand out and ask the govt for support in some way.

    If you crack on yourself, work hard and have to live on your mates sofa, well then you're doing just fine, according to the govt stats.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 261 ✭✭Fox Tail


    The author mentions immigration as one of the key reasons for the govt to invest in infrastructure, immediately. Not in 5 years time.

    The article isnt blaming immigration, but it is attributing immigration as a central driver for the NEED to invest in societal infrastructure. More homes, schools, healthcare provision et al.

    If we werent seeing such a large population increase (which is currently chiefly driven by immigration) then we wouldnt need to invest so much in services.

    The article is simply pointing out what we all know.

    The govt isn't investing in services, in line with a population increase, that the govt itself is nuturing.

    And as a result, something has to give.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    I think you may be replying to a different poster as I did not refer to any article in my post. However, you say:

    "If we weren't seeing such a large population increase (which is currently chiefly driven by immigration) then we wouldn't need to invest so much in services."

    Assuming this is your view too, this can indeed be seen as blaming immigration.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 261 ✭✭Fox Tail


    Yes, apologies, original IT article was quoted by another poster.

    I just tagged on to your reply.

    Blaming immigration for what, exactly?

    I was pointing out my interpretation of the article.

    I think, if anything, the article is blaming the govt for not responding to the population increase.

    The govt is failing to provide a growth in social infrastructure and services that is commensurate with the growth in population.

    I fully agree with that perspective.



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  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Your 2 word response means nothing. Want to try more words?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,290 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Why should the State be subsidising home ownership?

    It’s not just the “how much” question. There is the “how come” question, how come a Garda ends up renting from OPW?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,951 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    The opw own many Garda stations and old Garda houses



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,290 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    They do, but they don’t usually rent them out to individual Garda.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,951 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Garda houses they do, particularly ones attached to or containing Garda stations. Not so many any more since they closed loads of them down.

    The big boss man himself lives in an OPW owned house, wonder how much of his 273,000 salary goes on rent.........



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,240 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    You asked: "Blaming immigration for what, exactly?" Well if we look at your statement:

    "If we weren't seeing such a large population increase (which is currently chiefly driven by immigration) then we wouldn't need to invest so much in services."

    You appear to be blaming immigration for the need to invest more heavily in services.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭Jizique


    It does raise a question as to why precisely we are trying to raise our population



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,815 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    If being on the dole is so cushy, why don't we all go on it and get free houses?



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,405 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    I agree that the government treats working people much worse than it treats the long term unemployed but we have the biggest number of single & childless adults living in this country than weve ever had before & single people cant afford to buy a house or apartment on their single wage. As a result of this majority of single adults are living with their parents, renting in over crowded accommodation or are homeless & way down the bottom of the list for supports because they dont have kids or a sever medical condition. The charities that buy up homes, most of which are new builds, are the likes of Cluid & Tuath that rent out homes at 30% less than the market rate, this is still massively over priced for most single working people & they dont accept hap. The government needs to allocate more housing to single, childless adults before we have a big crisis of homeless elderly people with no family to take care of them. This is already beginning to happen.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 579 ✭✭✭dasa29



    I think it is worse than you think, as of Sep 22 the total on the housing list was 57,842 not including transfer list or Hap.

    One person households are in total 32,383 or 56%

    Couple households are in total 2332 or 4%

    Both groups add up to 60% of the total and would only get a One Bed property from all councils, but over the last five years nearly all property built in the country has been 2, 3, 4, or 4+ property with very few one beds built.

    At present in my location there is building in three areas with a combined total of 329 Residential Properties, but with only 45 one bed Residential Properties according the council planning application online.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 261 ✭✭Fox Tail


    You use the word blame incorrectly.

    There is no blame.

    Don't you get it? There is not any blame.

    If we are to increase our population, we need to increase our services.

    That is all.

    That is also what the article is saying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 261 ✭✭Fox Tail


    We need to stop priortising those that don't work, over those that do.

    It is much easier to have a child if you are not working. Its all paid for.

    Not the same when you have a job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Some of the anomalies are insane.

    A woman working for me lately told me you can get childcare subsidised if you’re NOT working. The idea is that it frees you up to look for work, but obviously people who are working need that much more than people who aren’t.

    Until recently, and it may well still be the case, if you went back to college from unemployment you were exempt from fees, but you had to pay if you had been working. So your options were restricted rather than enhanced if you contributed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 698 ✭✭✭TedBundysDriver


    As usual the first reaction when times get tough is blame poor people and immigrants.

    It's as depressing as it is predictable.

    Amnesty International’s new investigation shows that Israel imposes a system of oppression and domination against Palestinians across all areas under its control: in Israel and the OPT, and against Palestinian refugees, in order to benefit Jewish Israelis. This amounts to apartheid as prohibited in international law.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    Part of the problem is indeed excessive immigration putting strain on services and housing, but it's immigration policies (or lack thereof), not the immigrants themselves that are the contributing factors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,951 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Maybe you should consider that it may just be partly true???

    Most folk are happy enough when they figure that they and theirs can get along and find their way in life, working and paying their way. But when this cohort start getting affected as they are currently, attitudes change and harden. It's no surprise at all and quite justifiable.

    A state's first priority is to it's own citizens. Then secondly & looked at baldly, a state's second priority should be to healthy citizens who are actively contributing to society and/or taxes. Keep these in balance and healthy and a state thrives. Ignore these priorities and allow them to be abused and then a state and it society starts falling apart.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    The HAP system should be for people who are long term unemployed and need assistance with housing. What we call social housing should really be reserved for those who work, contribute and need to be living near where they work. Social housing is objectively better than the private rental market for those on lower incomes, the current system encourages behavior to game the system (like having multiple kids when the parent cannot even look after themselves, never mind children). It should also be the case that the rent in a social house is uncapped, so that in cases where someone ends up on a six figure salary it becomes cheaper to just house themselves privately (e.g. John Brady TD in Bray lives in a council house). Social housing should also have an allocation for those who need to live in the area, but who cannot afford to due to their salaries (e.g. Nurses, teachers, guards etc).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27 Tell it to me arse


    Anyone around here have examples of how Bertie fuelled the property boom? I’m sure I’ve read articles outlining FF central role in fuelling it but can’t recall specifically the policies. I have no doubt you’re playing the miscreant suggesting it wasn’t FF led policies that fuelled the boom. And it’s disingenuous of you writing off the liberal policies which lead to wealth generation and then at the same time saying they are the causes of crashes. 

    Many, many, many FF supporters became rich because of liberal policies and they are what has led to this country’s huge surplus. Whilst at the same time spouting hypocrisies like they are socialists. The cause of the crash isn’t liberal policies, it is pigs feeding at the trough, namely, FF people at the Galway races and so forth.

    To pin the blame on the liberal policies of the PD’s is misdirection in the extreme and sinister at least. You create a Marxist narrative that liberal policies and open economies cause crashes but what’s the alternative. Licking salt of a rock and building stone huts? No inward or outward investment and no generation of wealth?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,290 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Which Garda stations have houses attached that are rented out to Gardai by OPW?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,951 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Plenty got closed in the last few years, but any of the ones you see around the country that are Garda stations/houses are owned by opw and the Gardai rent them. Small rent. It's always been that way



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    In Limerick the County council is outbidding families with 2 working parents trying to get on the property ladder to instead provide a house to families who never worked or contributed anything to society only robbing houses & Selling drugs .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27 Tell it to me arse


    Your informal offhand style of describing corruption is entertaining yet lacking in rigorous analysis.

    Heres an alternative the more people problem, why don’t the people who can’t afford to pay for their offspring stop having them.

    Better still, why don’t we level the playing field and ensure the state implements policies to that effect?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,044 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    There are a few around, in places like Inis Mór. This was another



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    The state has no statutory obligation to the family with working parents, whereas it has to make provision for those who can't provide for themselves adequately. The only power the family with working parents has is at election time and then they are conflicted as to whether to support parties that might keep them in work and those that promise 'solutions'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Eoinbmw


    A housing estate recently developed on Childers road in Limerick had deposits handed back to potential private buyers after a housing charity bought up the entire estate!

    It was never mentioned in the planning application that the housing estate was to be developed entirely as social housing!

    It a complete disaster for private buyers and near on impossible to buy at the moment!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 261 ✭✭Fox Tail


    Services and infrastrucure. Housing included.

    Its not just immigration policy though. Its the fact there is no real infrastrucutre investment to accord with the growth in population.

    Most people dont have a problem with population growth, as long as our housing and services grow in lockstep with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 261 ✭✭Fox Tail


    Yes. very unfair.

    The govt is competing with its working population, whom can afford the private market, and is favouring the non-working people over those that contribute! Its madness.

    Although if the estate you speak of is all social housing now, the private lot dodged a bullet with getting their deposits back and not buying there.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,396 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt




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