Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

A question for experienced bartenders.

  • 07-08-2023 1:30pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    A customer asks for a pint of stout, you get less than half way with the pint and the keg runs dry. Do you start a fresh pint in a fresh glass for the customer or top up the less than half pint from a different keg?

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    Well if your in Dublin city centre, you finish the pint with the new keg.

    Down the the back ar$e of Kerry in a pub with a regular customer, it's a new pint.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    Less than halfway, dump it and start a new one. If it's more than half it's perfectly fine to top off with the "new" keg. (It will actually be the same keg still in the line)

    Depends on how long it takes to change the keg but where I worked would take less time to change than you'd wait to settle anyway so you just top off the pint when you get back from changing. Zero difference between that and a "normal" pint.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Are you a trained bartender yourself?

    While I understand the general gist of your answer I'm sure Dublin city centre must have a lot of pubs with a lot of regular customers, and they are probably paying a lot more for a proper pint.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    Managed many a bar, nightclub and hotel bar over the years (years ago). if you want a more dictionary correct answer substitute dublin bar for "hyperpub" or "superpub", I wasnt covering all eventualities, just in general. I am sure a known regular in most bars could request a new pint if so wanted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    And yes i have worked in bars and clubs in the city centre and the countryside.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    I appreciate the answers, if you ordered a pint in some place where you were not a regular would you be slow to request a fresh pint in a fresh glass or just let them top up your quarter or less of a pint and say nothing?

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    Personally, I'd probably say nothing, I do like guinness, but unless it tasted funny or something, I would be ok to accept it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,581 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    But you wouldn't know that until after you had paid for it.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 463 ✭✭Tom1991


    You always have a couple of pints in the line when a keg runs dry so your getting the same keg.In most pubs in a cellar ud prob have 3 pints in a back of the house kind of spot maybe even 5+ , some huge places more.

    Theres no publican throwing that away maybe using it to top off only ( symbolic gesture to having the two kegs back in the day) or if it was a really small bar with an under the counter setup then maybe i could see it.

    If the line gets reversed and left open and the line runs dry(blowing bubbles and shite out of the line) then id ask for a fresh pint.Wouldnt see it too often with stout but i've seen it and worked in places that took the piss with beer and slops.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,581 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    I didn't realise there was so many pints in the line to be honest but lets say a person is being trained as a bartender are they told that stout is a two pour pint and that's the only proper way to serve it? Or is it a case of you do not waste a drop, if you pour 1/8th or 1/4 of a pint then it's okay to serve a three pour pint?

    I'm genuinely curious about this and tried to find the answer online before starting the thread. Surely it should be the same standard in a small pub in the arsehole of Kerry as it is in a 5 star hotel in Dublin 4?

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,427 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I've never worked in a bar myself but a few friends did.

    They mentioned that Guinness in particular were quite strict about standards, as well as pints needing to be in a Guinness branded glass the taps and lines had to be serviced by a Guinness technician and there were regular quality checks.

    If you failed any then you weren't allowed to sell Guinness anymore

    I imagine there's also rules around changing kegs and what's allowed

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,949 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    Controversial fact that Guinness drinkers don’t like to hear; the 2 part pour is a marketing gimmick and makes zero difference to a pint.

    Experienced brewer here, in a blind tasting there is nobody in the world who could tell if it was poured on one go or in 2.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,427 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I always thought the 2 part pour was for looks rather than taste, to get the head looking right

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    I worked in a few bars myself way back in the day and drank in far too many.

    I clearly remember in the late 80's/early 90's no decent bartender would serve a customer the first couple of pints that were drawn off a new keg, they were poured straight down the sink and only when the pint settled and looked right was it good enough for a customer. This was especially true in "local" or working class pubs, I wasn't really into frequenting posher places.

    Back then when "The Rep" for whatever brewery called in he'd always stand a pint for whoever had been in drinking his product when he called. These days Guinness charge the pubs for beer mats and glasses and are as tight as a ducks arse. I'd love to know their policy on the question I asked in the OP but couldn't find it anywhere online.

    Personally I am turned off by someone using the dregs of the last keg as a base for the next pint, especially if it's less than half it just looks all wrong and smacks of meanness.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,168 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    The 2 pour pint of stout is a myth anyway. It was used as a marketing tool by Guiness back in the day to make people think they're product is looked after better by barstaff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭Gooser14


    What's your view on Guinness dispensed from electric pumps? I have had it served to me this way in UK & found it to be a horrible pint.





  • You can't use the start start or end of a keg for pints. It wouldnt settle correctly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Brew a bit myself and I can tell you of all the pints in the world stout is the one drink that needs extra care when pouring. There is a correct way and then there is a "that'll do" way. You're never going to get a proper pint of Guinness with one pour, ever.

    Not only can I tell the difference between a one pour and a two pour, I can tell the difference between two pints poured "properly" in two pubs which right next door to one another.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,427 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I'd absolutely believe it, Diageo is a company with excellent profits and not much else

    As someone else mentioned, a lot of bigger bars will have multiple kegs on the go. So does that mean there's no start or end to a keg since it's taking a bit out of each of them? 🤔

    I'm also pretty confident that busy bar staff in a big venue aren't going to be sitting drawing a bunch of pints through the taps when there's 500 people shouting for drinks

    And maybe it's a case that technology has improved so that drawing a bunch of pints through the taps isn't needed. Sensors, control systems, automation and remote monitoring have advanced a lot in the past couple of decades so it's quite possible that quality can be maintained without having to discard so many drinks.

    There's certainly a strong incentive for pubs and suppliers to be improving things and reducing waste

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost





  • If you are a barman pouring a Guinness in one you should be fired.


    You pour a Guinness in 2 to get a perfect pint.


    Crown of a pint should be proud of the glass, not running down the side of it.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,168 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    I don't drink Guinness often and can't comment what it tastes like in the UK. I do know from working in pubs here there's no difference between a straight pour and a 2 pour in taste in my experience working in pubs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,427 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    In the UK they like their pints filled with sadness and despair, good tasting Guinness would make them go crazy 😂

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭nachouser


    Enough to make a purist cry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,949 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    You’d be a horse of a man if you could sh1te walking without dirtying your heels



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Lay off the ol' home brew there sham because God only knows what you are drinking.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 463 ✭✭Tom1991


    Most of the time with Guinness your having two taps beside each other on separate lines.

    So keg goes you’d keep going in with the other tap till it’s 3/4 full before you top it off.

    Most breweries even the smaller crafts will have someone cleaning the lines on their schedule.

    Some pubs may still have a one keg serving two taps ( but we’re being weaned out when I left the trade 4/5 years ago) and mostly that was for lagers only.

    The binning X amount of pints at the start of a keg is long gone for any pub in Ireland.

    there is a keg feeding a fob (a canister with a floating cap in it ) when the keg empty’s the fob drops cutting the line off with beer inside.

    you tap the next keg on and feed the fob with beer until the cap floats again and beer starts flowing again.

    this stuff you’d feed would pour out into some sort of container you would claim as a credit when the line cleaning people or rep would come in.

    You would roll on endlessly changing kegs until u were due for a line cleaning and then you’d let the fob pour out air ( we called it reversing the fob) then a pile of **** would blow out the tap when the beer was pushed out.

    Standards wise Guinness are quick to react to rumours of shite pints in x place posted online.

    Guinness one or two pour or across kegs is not gonna taste any different it’s like drinking two separate cans of coke.

    If there is an issue 9/10 it’s the glassware crap glass washers or storing stacked glasses and then getting condensation etc.

    1/10 a dead pub with no go in it you’ll get stale ish beer that’s been sitting in the line a while.

    I love a pint of Guinness but the influencers talking about shite and reviewing it are reviewing how clean a glass is really.Or if they tweak the glass shape a tiny bit like a few years ago and people lose there minds


    there is a Diageo criteria for the perfect pint of Guinness we’re they calibrate a pubs set up to get within a certain spec for the pint.

    Some pubs will shoot for a colder pint others the upper end for the accepted range .


    forgot to add to u can pour the pint of Guinness in ten parts or 1 it will taste the same.the two part is just for the looks of the pint sitting above the brim.

    Lager you would have a heap of bubbles Ull see some new bartender trying to top a pint of lager off by stop and starting when you just have to pour through it when it’s high.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭Feisar


    I worked in a few places when I was in college and after for the craic. My dictum was to never serve something I wouldn't be happy with myself. I'd have no problem with a keg being changed and then topped off. It's a homogenous product, there are no "dregs". This stuff isn't in old timber casks being hand pumped. (I never worked anywhere with timber casks, I just imagine it would deteriorate more than modern kegs.) What I wouldn't like is a pint being topped off with another tap. It might be in my head but damnit taps side by side can and do taste different. I know someone will say it's because one is being used more regularly but I'd always keep them in even use.

    Two part pour is purely for the head to sit slightly higher than the rim of the glass. Also if poured in one the head will be too big.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,307 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    The nicest Guinness I had was in a village in Cork where he filled it over half pushing and finishing by a pull . The opposite of the normal



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,228 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    You fill the pint to the 3/4 mark as normal after tapping the keg and then finish as normal.

    The line holds 2/3/4 pints so there is no issue for the pint being pulled.

    Customers who think the pint will be poor and spend all day fretting over the "constant change" in quality in their local are muppets with no life and no clue about the industry they think they know loads about because they buy products from it

    The customer is 99% of the time wrong and the professional pulling the pint is right.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Alot of people here claiming to know sh1t about pouring pints and only one or two who clearly have. The two pint pour is marketing and hasn't been necessary since decent nitrogen taps came into play. Anyone saying they can taste the difference is full of sh1te. The only time it makes a difference is in a small pub where the part time bar tender keeps pulling off one line and then tops off the rarely used second one when the keg goes. I worked in a bar for 15 years and the BS you'd hear customers spew. Reminds me of one of our regulars when Guinness done the micro brews years ago. When the promo stuff changed he waffled on about the difference. We didn't have the heart to tell him we hadn't changed the keg yet. Long story short, yes, pull the pint in a way to make it visually appealing as appearance affects taste, this has been proven scientifically as well as by Tom, Dick and Harry down the local. It maybe all in their heads but thinking is believing. Same goes for the glass type, it doesn't really make a difference but you thinking it does, does make a difference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭nachouser


    G'wan outta dat. Sure the lads can tell a one pint pour by the schmell, never mind the look or taste of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,488 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,063 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Pity they weren't around the pubs near Croke park on All Ireland Final days to see the slop that was being dished out in plastic glasses to the fools who were eager to pay 6.50 to 7 euro for it.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭John.G


    The first 2 pour pint I got was in the Seamans mission in Bootle in the late 60s, there were two horizontally mounted 1/2 pint glass dispensers side by side (same with the beers) and a pint was dispensed in a few seconds, you got one 1/2 deposited first and then the other, despite this major set back in life, I have been drinking Stout (mainly Guinness) for over 60 years.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭John.G


    Years ago, we used to stop off at the Gresham, on AI day, two barmen were just pulling pints of Guinness, they were fabulous, if not quite as good as the Wharf Tavern.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,427 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I imagine that the quality team were told to be somewhere else by Diageo considering the amount of revenue that one event was bringing in

    As I said, I can't imagine busy bar staff are going to be wasting any time at a big event

    I never really got the appeal of drinking Guinness at a match anyway. I certainly wouldn't be feeling like jumping around cheering after a few pints of stout, at least not without a vomit bucket handy

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,228 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Another myth that has hung around is the "bottom of the barrel".

    Auld fellas who wouldn't drink the pint "from the bottom of the barrel" just couldn't wrap their heads around the idea that it's the first few pints not the last few that are the bottom of the barrel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭Lewis_Benson


    The 2 part pour is indeed a load of bollix.



  • Advertisement


  • Yep. People don't know the construction of a keg.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,633 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Sorry I just don't believe any of this.

    There's a difference between home brew from a bottle to beer coming from a keg with modern taps. Years ago it mattered but not any more.

    The two part pour is only to get the head and right and there's no way if you did a blind taste could you tell any difference between the two. Why? Because they'd both contain the exact same beer and there's no difference in taste.

    You're only fooling yourself if you think you can tell the difference on taste alone.

    Post edited by murpho999 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭Lewis_Benson


    As a drinker, there is no difference in a single or 2 pour pint.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    When last and what pub were you served a pint of Guinness that was poured in one go?

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    We done it a lot on match days where you would have up 30 pints settling, Pull half of them 3/4, the rest to the brim, the head was fine once the glass was angled and customers couldn't tell as there were so many flying around. Regulars would often say in one go is fine at the end of the night, certainly when we were having pints after work most of us would pull in one go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭Lewis_Benson


    Nuts Corner Arhlone, last Sunday night, 3rd pint in I asked for it in one pour, I was playing a gig so had to get back up and keep playing.

    There is absolutely zero difference, it's the same product coming out of the tap, and one of the most homogenised beers on the market, hence the consistency in quality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,186 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Yep get the pour angle correct and there is no difference between the one and two pour.

    The two pour just makes it easier to get the head right, though some still manage to struggle given some of the pints I've seen.

    Apart from that it's just marketing and legacy from when there was actually two kegs, a high pressure one for the head, which was poured first, and a low pressure one for the body.

    Good article on it here.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,228 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    We used do it as a game with the locals and no one could ever blind test tell the difference.

    That article is essentially written by Guinness.

    For one thing some pubs don't even have taps that can pushed and pulled both directions. I worked in one such pub and the Guinness was great. This pub was also in England which leads me on to another horsesht urban legend that Guinness is better in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,186 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Agree there is no need to push to top up either. The idea was it's a bit slower so wouldn't affect the size of the head but any barman worth their salt can do it just pulling.

    It's rare to see anyone pushing anymore.



  • Advertisement
Advertisement