Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

UK will finally off shore illegal asylum seekers crossing the channel

1121315171820

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    Yes people like you. People who name call,label and try to silence those who want to vocalise their concerns and worries.

    Both the brown and the black shirts had a similar tactic of shouting down and vilifying opinions they didn't like



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    That you thought shutting down the north coast of France to small boat launches was in anyway a realistic idea, nevermind issuing permits.

    And you expect to be taken seriously

    Laughable



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,341 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Of course many countries flat out refused to take in Jews fleeing Germany - to the point that some of those who managed to escape had little choice but to return and ultimately face their death. It was a fairly shameful moment in the history of many countries and all the talk of "never again" after the war has repeatedly proven to be empty words.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    No no. I never said it was an idea. You have to be careful to never propose an idea on here, too many cretins.

    As it stands there are growing numbers of fatalities, so we can say that the present situation is a hell of a lot worse than a few people being inconvenienced in their leisure activities.

    Ill take it that even you agree to that.

    Unless of course youd like to say otherwise.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,341 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    You have a bizarre, twister and ultimately and most importantly grossly incorrect idea of what asylum seekers and refugees "benefit" from. Maybe gross ignorance is just where all the objections ultimately come from.

    In Ireland Direct Provision is little better than internment. UK benefits are not anywhere on the same level as Ireland and it would be difficult to live off them. We both make it as hard as possible (and illegal is some cases) for aslyum seekers and refugees to work leaving them little choice.

    But I'm all aboard with what seems to be your plan of allowing aslyum seekers to work and contribute to society. That would indeed be much better.


    People are sick and tired of this country being seen as a soft mark where its easy to play the system and taxpayers foot the bill.

    This is just fantasy though. UK and Ireland both deal with substantially fewer refugees than the rest of Europe. It is a fantasy that certain elements have conjured up to keep people angry to suit their political needs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Substantially fewer refugees than the rest of europe.

    Thats a bit like saying substantially fewer injuries than the guy in seat 4A on one of the 9/11 planes.

    Its not necessarily a good/bad thing. Its a relative measure.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,341 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It blows the idea of UK/Ireland being seen as a "soft touch" out of the water though. Its a common refrain and its 100% bullshit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    It doesnt though.

    You can still be a soft touch, while being less of a soft touch than Germany.

    You can still be obese, while being less obese than someone on my 600 pound life.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    I said same yesterday and quoted to refugeecouncil. Org.au.

    The response i got was " no they didnt"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,200 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    incorrect on both counts.

    what rwanda will do if they have any sense is just release them upon arrival and put up the price, britain will pay whatever it takes to implement this policy so rwanda are in a perfect place to milk a potential cash cow if they are savvy enough.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    What does leisure activities have to do with anything?

    You are just rambling at this stage



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Have you an example of me trying to silence someone.

    I now have two examples of you trying not to engage but instead posting aggressively and stating things without evidence.

    Who exactly are people like me Tones?



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    Now you are answering questions not even asked.

    What does that have to do with migrants crossing the channel.

    Obviously



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    One downside to restricting access to the channel would be that it would negatively affect small pleasure craft, i.e. people who sail as a leisure activity.

    Thats about all, I hope you can understand now.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    As you have admitted not knowing the size of the northern coast of France.

    How are you going to implement this restriction?

    What is there to understand?

    Stopping leisure craft, or requiring them them to obtain permits is going to have zero effect on those crossing illegally.

    Like I already said, you are just rambling for the sake of it.

    No idea, no clue



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    How am I going to implement French govt policy?

    Lol.

    Well thats easy.

    Get me the Paris phone book. Ill show you how.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    What French government policy?

    This is your nonsense idea.

    That you didn't think it through is your problem. Or seemingly give it any thought at all, but this is what happens when you just ramble.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    I make stupid people angry when I ramble? Really?

    Well let me just switch to my desktop pc.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    Really? Your own rambles make you angry? You should stop rambling then. It's apparently not good for your blood pressure

    actually addressing points instead of constantly deflecting should help you aswell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    That would mean you would have to actually address points and can't deflect anymore!

    Are you prepared for that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    We're a soft touch ,

    80,000 through DP over the 25+ years,we supposedly have a 75% refusal rate yet in the last 25+ years we have only deported 1400 individuals ,

    We don't track failed asylum seekers,and have no real mechanisms to hold and deport failed asylum seekers,we do offer near unlimited appeals and unlimited free legal aid ,

    We now have a influx of immigrants believing they are entitled to protection under the illegal immigrants amnesty,


    Tell us how we are not a soft touch



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,205 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Most refugees who come here would be perfectly willing to work hard if given the opportunity. The idea that the male refugees are potential rapists, criminals and terrorists (the line pumped out by the usual suspects on Irish social media) is made up nonsense - those three categories usually have zero interest in applying for asylum in another country or living on a pittance in a refugee centre.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    what do you want to know?

    can't believe you're still laboring this dead end by the way.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    And yet we see evidence that some are criminals , rapists, murders., drug traffickers and several documented cases of people trafficking while going through the asylum process.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,677 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Ok so why are there 3000 people (mostly young men) living here with nothing to show who they are and where they came from.

    I take it you agree they should never have been let into the country in the first place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    Your deflections aren't a dead end, no matter how desperately you want them to be



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    Well why don't you detail to us your plan to shut down the north coast of France to all small boat launches with considerations to the amount of manpower required to do this and how permits are going to have any effect on illegals crossing

    Also you can show us that you have informed yourself on the size of the north coast of france



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    I never had such a plan. Just a 'wish'.

    Although in theory I suppose France could choose multiple segments of the coast to place restrictions on. And has abundant assets with which to do so.

    Intense restrictions would only really be needed towards the eastern end of the north coast for maximum affect, mostly in the vicinity of Calais. And around Cherbourg. As you move west the channel widens significantly and becomes very unsuitable for dinghys. The journey time also increases dramatically meaning the odds of being caught increase.

    Such restrictions wouldnt have any real basis of complaint in international law. As one person mentioned. Just domestic policy outlawing access to these particilar beaches and waters, which just so happen to be in the best spots for illegal emigration, and just happen to be extremely vast in some cases.

    As I pointed out this is already the case with certain beaches in France which are off limits for ecological reasons. Although other justifications for turning people back are available too.

    Thats about all.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,341 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Why on Earth would they do this though? I wish France would just decide to gift me a million Euro, but they aren't going to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Ehh because theres a rising number of fatalities.

    And an ongoing trend of lawlessness, along with the arrival locally of characters associated with the world of organized crime, drug smuggling and people trafficking. And probably some extremists thrown in there too, the odd serial rapist ... who knows really.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,341 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There are numerous fatalities on the road also, but they're not about to shut all the motorways.

    Again, you and others of your ilk wildly overstate the problem and the resources you expect to be devoted to solving it. Shutting down the north coast of France, even just large swathes of it, would a)aggregate the **** out of your citizens, b) be legally questionable and c)cost billions.

    You may only be expressing your wish, but it is a wish based in the realms of fantasy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    We can but hope.

    That fewer people would perish in dark icy waters.

    The roads are a necessity, and under relative control.

    Smugglers transporting unknown people across maritime borders arent needed, or presently under any proper control.

    If I were a local of Calais I wouldnt be in any way aggrevated by the arrival of a govt response to this chaos. Quite the opposite.

    Sometimes you have to spend a little now rather than a lot later. This chaos wont stop itself, so France has two choices, just let it spiral or exercise territorial control.

    One day itll all get too big, therell be a murder, a scandal and an outcry. Then a complete teardown of the people smuggling industry in the region. And thats why my wish is not entirely fantasy.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,341 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If that is actually your concern than asylum processing centres in France are by far the best way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    why stop with just a UK asylum application center.

    we could have a UK asylum application center, attached to a Morocco asylum application center, a Lebanon asylum application center, an Israel asylum application center, and a Egypt asylum application center, and a Jordan asylum application center. And so on. Kazakhstan, etc.

    That way, if you get turned down by the UK you can just claim asylum somewhere else.

    But we know they won't respect that. That they'll just hop in a dinghy for UK. Because they don't respect other peoples wishes.

    And thats why you need to physically prevent them.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,341 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Right. So you don’t actually care about people dying crossing the channel. Cause that is what this would help.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Sure I do.

    Its just not my only concern. Unlike some I have both a mind and a heart.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,205 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    "In the year ending March 2022, Germany received the highest number of asylum applicants (164,925) in the EU+, followed by France (112,860). When compared with the EU+ for the year ending March 2022, the UK received the 4th largest number of applicants (66,838 – including both main applicants and dependants). This equates to 9% of the total asylum applicants across the EU+ and UK combined over that period, but the 18th largest intake when measured per head of population."

    Protecting the UK's borders is simply not a priority for France, not when they are taking in far more asylum seekers themselves (double the UK number). Also, trying to stop all UK bound asylum seekers from getting to GB would put even more pressure on their own asylum system. Why would they want to do that?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Its in France's own self interest. Of the immigrants entering France a certain percentage will be there only to use France as a stepping stone to the UK. Tightening controls on the option of hopping across the channel would reduce the feasibility of that option and the associated costs of dealing with the channel migrants in pas de calais and dunkirk. (where they've caused all sorts of issues).

    Of course UK needs to do its bit too to eradicate this tragic industry of cross channel people smuggling, and the Rwanda policy is the most practical step they've taken. Good for them, about time. And if they're further down the chart then thats what others should be aiming for. Invert that chart. Make it a leaderboard.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,205 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Even if they wanted to stop people crossing the Channel, it would be nigh on impossible. They would have to deploy many thousands of border guards and troops along the northern coast of France and that wouldn't even work, especially at night time - it's relatively easy to cross to Dover from around 40-50 miles of French coastline. The British tabloids are peddling a total fantasy in saying that it is up the French to 'sort out' the issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    The UK tabloids are azzholes. And yes this is essentially a UK problem, France just happens to be the route taken by the clandestine migrants.

    But patrolling and stopping the dinghys is far, far from impossible. Most leave from the Calais area. Beyond 50km either side of Calais the channel widens significantly.

    (from about 40km at Calais to Dover to an average of about 140km average across the channel, with Cherbourg the next closest point at about 90km)

    France easily has the resources to stop the dinghys, especially if UKs navy and Frontex assist.

    And there are civilians who keep an eye on the situation. (calaisiens en colere). And commercial ships already report them regularly, and its the busiest shipping lane in Europe.

    Night time just means heat sensitive optics make it easy to pick them out.

    The means are definitely there. The will just isn't. Its politics.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,205 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The only way the issue will ever be properly dealt with is through effective asylum channels, efficient management of new migrant arrivals, streamlined processes for processing claims, smart cooperation between countries etc. Most of the suggestions of military interventions, gunboats, soldiers patrolling beaches, physically hauling people out of dinghies and so on is just headbanger talk from loons on GB News and in the Daily Mail who want a 'law and order' solution to a humanitarian problem - people who have no interest in having an efficient or successfully working British asylum system.

    None of the the above would play well with Daily Mail readers / Tory voters in the UK either. They actively want the asylum system to fail.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Or effective borders. Effective repatriation. An appropriate welfare system. And an inflight magazine called 'back you go'. 101 other ""asylum"" locations.

    Also in this edition, Dubai; home of yachts, billionaires and the worlds tallest skyscrapers. Egypts new $45 billion city project. India's space program launches domestic suborbital rocket. Top 10 African megacities with populations over 5 million; they can make it, why cant you.

    Humanitarian assistance is more efficient for more people when applied in their country of origin. Or in similar cultures. Let them have asylum in their neighboring countries. Asylum shouldn't be a question of pick your favorite.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 807 ✭✭✭Juran


    20 years ago, Ireland being a touch seemed to be well known in a certain African country, they had the pick of DP hotels and all trappings of the Irish refugee system. They must be seriously put out that the big secert is and every tom, dick and harry arenow rocking up to our airports, ports and border looking for a piece of sweet pie. (Note, Ukrainians fleeing war is an excemption to my comment).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    So you were just rambling then. Glad you cleared that up.

    What abundant resources are you referring to? What resources do you think it requires to actually implement a shut down of massive stretches of coastline.

    If you did actually shut down the easier places to launch from, do you believe that they will just stop?

    Getting caught on the water is only an issue if returned to France. So the width of channel isn't really an issue in that regard.

    The whole place is an issue for overloaded dinghys as it is

    beaches being closed for ecological reasons is irrelevant to people crossing the channel. Placing restrictions are pointless. If you want to shut down beaches to people launching from them. They need permanent constant persistent patrols. Which would require massive amounts of manpower and funding.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    What resources?

    Police, gendarmes, customs, navy. Commercial vessels also cooperate with the authorities to report dinghys. (Hundreds of commercial vessels, relatively small area).

    Locals (tired of the various shenanigans associated with clandestines) also regularly report them. Some of the more 'outgoing' locals do this actively on an organized basis (calaisiens en colere).

    Of course the width of the route is relevant, these are overloaded slow moving dinghys theyre using. Normally with just 1 motor. Theyre regularly restricted by weather conditions too. Frequently have technical problems.

    The capabilities are easily there. Even moreso if UK chip in a few vessels.

    There are also severe weaknesses in the communication methods of the smugglers. Their services are offered to randomers through social media and word of mouth in the migrant community. Mostly organized by text.

    I feel theres maybe some kind of unspoken association being made between this shtty little disorganized, regional, amateurish, low volume, low finance, low sophistication smuggling of immigrants, and the unstoppable, high everything drugs trade. The situations are hugely different, just saying.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,152 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Plan B is Ascension Island





  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,605 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    England is full. No room for refugees there. Ascension island on the other hand, that place has loads of space and resources to accommodate asylum seekers



Advertisement