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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Keep in mind it was streamed live also, not sure if the view counters include the livestream.

    Agree completely about Carthy, PANA etc, Matt already has a voice in the Dail. This is a guy who thought initially PESCO was a NATO led overseas mission. This forum was for those others to raise their voice, and ask the questions. Same could be said, to a certain extent for certain senators. We know your opinion. Let us have a chance?

    I saw it with my own eyes on Day 1. Wallace & his concubine arrived to make their statement (it wasn't a question- "Taiwan is China", "NATO expansion forced russia to invade Ukraine etc) and were gone almost immediately after. (I will not hide my disdain or disrespect for these 2, the Euro elections can't come soon enough). They did not expect so many Ukrainians were in the audience, and they were very ably challenged on their statement.


    The Cyber panel I found very informative. Richard is a very able operator, who is a good friend to the DF for many years. I genuinely was unaware of our inter-connectivity with NI from a telecoms perspective.

    I spoke to my local SF TD at lunchtime on day 1 (disclaimer: I went to school with him, we both know we will never agree on most things, and he knows I won't vote for him, but his work in the area with mental health has been consistent and admirable). I asked what he though of it.

    "Everyone is talking about threats and security and military cooperation, nobody is talking about peace!" That was his take. I suggested he wait till the afternoon when there would be a panel on the Irish experience in Peacekeeping, but oddly he did not remain...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Newstalk are known for it. I'd say it was gaslighting myself, for the clicks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I think you are being to kind to them id say it was sheer incompetence



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There’s a fascinating piece in todays indo on how storm keating deals with grief , it’s very long and concerns a social media post in which she refers to her current state of mind after the death of her brother in law, this one sentence will save you all that bother



    “Today Storm posted a poignant note on her Instagram with the caption "grief" with a white heart emoji.”


    an entire article



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I'm pretty sure you have the wrong forum



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Dohvolle




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Defence Forces suffering major shortage of chefs with navy worst hit (irishexaminer.com)

    Napoleon said an Army marches on it's stomach. I'm sure its even more important when you want to keep ships at sea. From my own seagoing experience, the day the cook left, and one of the ABs convinced the skipper that he could also cook, that was the day I decided seafaring was not the life for me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Couldn't read the entire article as not a subscriber. I do recall an article a long time ago that the budget for food was not really adequate and that it was significantly less per person fed per day than the budget for the prison service. So it's no wonder the chefs feel they are doing a thankless job trying to keep their customers happy when faced with trying to put nourishing and attractive food on the table on a budget that really only runs to junk food. Not the kind of career you want after spending years honing your skills at catering college and working your way up in the profession......



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭roadmaster




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,243 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Isn't that the modern problem companies complaining they can't get staff, people saying they can't get hired.

    Dinosaur of an organisation.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Small print: when they return after the summer recess in late september, so probably October.


    In the meantime?


    tumbleweed.

    People are literally voting with their feet. We recruit 10 for every 30 who leave.



  • Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭mupper2




  • Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭mupper2


    Double post, delete please.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Dohvolle




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Such as the fact the Navy are down to one ship again for Patrolling our waters.

    That theres a strong chance Bristow may try to gut the Air Corps No.3 Ops wing to fullfill the SAR contract.

    That the reserve really does not exist anymore or that fact the army are struggling to man and operate every base in the country apart Finner Camp.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    The DF open day last weekend was mostly manned by people from the Army and Naval reserve.

    I think the Air Corps were always tagged to carry out the 2nd half of the Fixed wing part of the SAR contract.

    As for one ship at sea....



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    I think that's because there has been an outbreak of covid on a second vessel and it has had to return to Cobh and the ship's company are in quarantine.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Tell me now my national service idea is laughable.

    Lads, we need a robust military.

    Yes, service conditions, remuneration and pensions do need to be addressed, but they can never possibly match private sector technical budgets.

    And so, if people won't serve voluntarily, they must serve compulsorily.

    And before you ask, yes I would absolutely serve in reserve. I don't think my 60 year old knees on my 45 year old body would exactly qualify me for the infantry, but I have excellent professional skills in project and organisational management, I'd happily work in operational support or wherever I could be useful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,243 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I think the issue is not so much parity with private sector. But it's not viable even for those more interested in a life in the services then a regular job. By viable I mean basic standards of living.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭mupper2


    But you're missing the optimistic side of this, if you're FG there are so many services you could privatize if the DF were hollowed out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    SAR was privatised because Govt wouldn't invest in the Air Corps. The Air Corps had done it daylight only from 1963 to 1987, them 24/7 from 87 to 2000. After the Air Corps overloaded Dauphin with its overtired crew ploughed into a sand dune in Tramore, the writing was on the wall there.

    I'm surprised the Air Corps still has GASU. Time will tell if that stays.

    The semise of the G4, and the progressive ageing of the Lear45 sees government using charger aircraft instead of replacing either, and nobody seems to care.

    The NS are slowly losing Fishery protection, good in ways, but bad because the current generation of vessels were designed with fishery protection as their primary purpose.

    The ATCP role the Army was primarily tasked with gradually stood down since the peace process begun.

    All that is left for the DF to do now is defend the state, and its clear successive governments have no interest in that.


    Of course the next winter weather event the DF will be called by local authorities to assist again, though there may not be anyone left to fill the sandbags by then.

    Maybe they can get a contractor to do it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭mupper2


    See always a silver lining and a contract to dish out to the wife's brothers friend who just happens to own a tree clearing service set up in the last 6 months..



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭sparky42


    It's laughable. Politicians want to get elected/re-elected and any party that puts this forward would be laughed off the ballot. Moreover the very idea is flawed, we are where we are because the generations of Governments have had no interest in spending anything close to a reasonable amount on defence. Having a compulsory national service will do nothing to change that no have any meaningful impact on our issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    People will join if they feel their efforts are being valued, financially or otherwise.

    Government has done nothing to demonstrate it values the people who work to defend it. The DF were the first to face cuts during FEMPI, with units being disbanded and soldiers being forced to commute longer distances on less pay. There was pay restoration, but no change to the long commute.

    Talk to those who remain, and most did so because they are close to a key point on the calendar for pension purposes. Once that is passed, the majority will jump ship.

    And nobody in government cares.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    This is a whole new European and Global security paradigm.

    There was little or no threat to our infrastructure and resources in the FEMPI era and so bad and all as the raid on the DF, it was justifiable by the Government of the day.

    The adoption of the CoDF report and corresponding commitment to budgetary increase show we most certainly are in a different era.

    We need personnel for all this shiny new gear and so putting them in place in an era of growth and full employment with salary competitiveness, requires brand new thinking.

    If all other attempted solutions to this are exhausted, whatever remains, no matter how unlikely, must be the answer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭sparky42


    What “shiny new gear”? We have no evidence of anything like that yet, and “all other attempted solutions”… What solutions have been tried?



  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    I’m afraid me boys, if with The current Tanaiste / min defence, current finance minister and previous minister for defence all in Cork adjacent to Haulbowline can’t sort allowances for naval personnel where the case is obvious - more ships than men / women to crew them with at least half the fleet tied up, tangible and growing strategic interests to be defended there is little prospect of any change ….

    as I have stated before the DF establishment level is pie in the sky stuff for the short to medium term unfortunately there is not the willingness to spend the money necessary, plus with full employment few want that life



  • Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭mupper2


    As other smarter people have talked about, the World right now seems to be going through an extended late 1938 early 39 period, people can see the crises (plural) coming, some are preparing for it, some think it can be stopped others don't even believe it's happening....Ireland is unique in that we think it's happening, don't want to do anything about it but if it does someone else will take care of us.


    The difference between now and 1939 is that w won't have a cathartic 6 year World war to reset the World, we'll just have decade after decade of omni-crisis that'll make WWII and the Cold war look relatively easy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    We had a "perfect storm" in the current government for instant improvement in the Naval service at least. A minister living in the same constituency as the naval base, with a background in sailing, and a good friend to the NS while in opposition, followed by a Minister who succeeded in turning chain smoking irish pubgoers into smoke free zones, and reforming the health boards, and if that wasn't enough, the man in charge of the purse strings a running mate of the Former Taoiseach and current defence Minister.

    We had all the ducks in a row. There were no barriers.

    Instead everything went Pete Tong.



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