Cost of a United Ireland and the GFA

Great. The GFA was a fantastic deal for unionism. Can you tell the staunch unionists like Jamie Bryson who believe it was a deal where nationalism must get and unionism must give. Nearly all nationalism supports the GFA. Perhaps it something can be shared or must the zero sum game always apply to everything in NI politics.

It's precisely why I linked them.

Just to go back to this and the thread topic.

What do people think of the idea of unifying healthcare on the island?

Everybody would agree that both services are not fully performing for the people, that's a given I presume.

Would an all island healthcare service deliver better outcomes for all?

heenan_arins.pdf (ria.ie)

Em...I think I posted an 'expert' view there blanch.

Immediately you come back with a 'who will pay' negative question.

We all 'pay' one way or another for our health services. The 'money' has to come from somewhere. The NHS doesn't function on some magic money tree.

I don't know what system will be adopted, or what pay and grant systems might be adopted, I asked the question to see if people with a more positive outlook than yours might discuss it.

And it isn't I who is flying kites, there are clearly people more expert than me or you flying this kite (see the link, Ireland's Future have also looked at this)

Maybe you might want to reflect(and the UUP) on that and accept the conversation is happening with or without you and them.

For the info of those who may be swayed by the negativity, this is the full list of Interviewees for the Arins paper, anyone can see that the messenger blanch wishes to shoot is just one of those.:

Interviewees Alexander, Philip: Chief Executive, Cancer Fund for Children, Belfast. Appleby, John: Director of Research and Chief Economist, Nuffield Trust, London. Babington, David: Chief Executive, Action Mental Health, Belfast. Bengoa, Rafael: Professor, Chair of the Bengoa Review. Birrell, Derek: Professor, Social Policy, Ulster University. Bjourson, Tony: Professor of Genomics, Ulster University. Black, Tom: GP, Chair of British Medical Association, NI. Burns, Harry: Professor of Global Public Health, University of Strathclyde. Casey, Frank: Professor, Consultant Paediatric Cardiologist, Belfast Health and Social Care Trust. Compton, John: Former Chief Executive of the Health and Social Care Board. Connolly, Susan: Consultant Cardiologist, Western Health and Social Care Trust. Cross, Judith: Head of Policy and Committee Services, British Medical Association, NI. Cullen, Pat: Acting Chief Executive and General Secretary of the Royal College of Nursing. Devlin, Rita: Associate Director of Professional Practice, Royal College of Nursing. Doherty, Michael: Dr, Vice Chair of Royal College of Psychiatrists, NI. Dorman, Laurence: Dr, Chair of the Royal College of General Practitioners. Dornan, Jim: (deceased) Professor in Foetal Medicine, Queen’s University Belfast. Farrell, Anne-Maree: Professor, Edinburgh Law School. Ferguson, Mark: Professor, Director General, Science Foundation Ireland. Fogarty, Damian: Consultant Nephrologist, Belfast Health and Social Care Trust. Glasby, Jon: Professor, Department of Social Work and Social Care, University of Birmingham. Henderson, Donall: Chief Executive, Foyle Hospice, Derry. Kane, Joseph: Dr, Clinical Lecturer Queen’s University Belfast, and Royal College of Psychiatrists, NI. Knape, John: Dr, Head of Communications, Royal College of Nursing, Belfast. Heenan—Collaborating on Healthcare on an All-Island Basis 447 Magahy, Laura: Executive Director, Sláintecare. Matthews, Anne: Professor at the School of Nursing, Dublin City University. McCrory, Bernie: Chief Executive, Cooperation and Working Together (CAWT), Derry. McElherron, Lisa: Group Director of insight and engagement, Inspire Mental Health, Belfast. McGinnity, Martin: Professor of Computer Science, Ulster University. McIntyre, Gina: Chief Executive of Special EU Programmes Body. McLaughlin, Jim: Professor, School of Engineering, Ulster University. Morrow, Sharon: Director, All-Island Congenital Heart Disease Network. Mulvenna, Maurice: Professor of Computer Science, Ulster University. Nethercott, Raymond: Paediatrician, Western Health and Social Care Trust. O’Connor, Anthony: Professor, Consultant Gastroenterologist, Tallaght Hospital. O’Hagan, Len: Dr, Chair of the All-Island Congenital Heart Disease Network. O’Neill, Ciaran: Professor, School of Medicine, Dentistry and Biomedical Sciences, Queen’s University Belfast. O’Neill, Francis: Dr, Senior Lecturer in Psychiatry, Queen’s University Belfast and Royal College of Psychiatrists, NI. O’Neill, Siobhan: Professor of Mental Health Sciences, Ulster University and Interim NI Mental Health Champion. O’Sullivan, Barry: Professor of Computer Science, University College Cork. Peace, Aaron: Consultant Cardiologist, Western Health and Social Care Trust, Derry. Quinn, Michael: Head of Clinical Information, Health and Social Care Board, Belfast. Regan, Mark: CEO, Kingsbridge Private Hospital, Belfast. Scally, Gabriel: Professor, President of Epidemiology and Public Health, Royal Society of Medicine. Shrime, Mark: O’Brien Chair of Global Surgery, Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland. Soares, Anthony: Dr, Director Centre for Cross Border Studies, Armagh. Taylor, Mark: Consultant Hepatobiliary and Pancreatic Surgeon, Director of Royal College of Surgeons, Belfast. Walker, Rhoda: Chair, Northern Ireland Rare Disease Partnership, Belfast. Wilson, Richard: Dr, Chair of Royal College of Psychiatrists, NI

Maybe sit this debate out blanch if all you wish to do is stifle the discussion?

I really don't understand that attack on one participant.

I also don't understand why we need to move to full unification and the scary 'who will pay question when they are clearly areas where unification of services can be made if the political will was there. Areas where the costs are mitigated by the superior outcomes for real people as outlined by these many experts.

My question is because I just read something yesterday that stated that there are now more Irish people living in England than there are in the Republic of Ireland

I don't suppose there's any chance of you backing that up because it sounds completely unbelievable.

I don't think there's any chance of Ireland rejoining the UK. Looking at how Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are treated as part of that Union as well as having to give up EU membership and losing our freedom to travel i can't see enough Irish voting to rejoin the UK.

She was just one of those interviewed for the paper. Noticeable that not a single senior person from the NHS or HSE were interviewed. The paper is enough to start a conversation, nothing more, but it seems that once again, when you move beyond the platitudes and slogans, and get to the real hard detail, that posters are afraid to engage.

That's just more shooting the messengers tbh.

Why won't you address what they had to say? Why are you moving beyond that to questions that are way down the road?

Is it perhaps because you and the unionists who object (to any talk of working together or unifying services) are afraid the outcome might be positive and proof that we are better working together on an all island basis and what that might mean for the constitutional question?

Seems to me if there is progress on all island healthcare then another of the big blockers to unification would be removed. Just as the recent clarity on the subvention has silenced 'the scary 10/11/12 billion day one cost' sensationalists.

Fair point.

More people from ROI living in England than NI? Englands population is 56million, NI is 2 million. England is 23 times the size of NI so obviously will have more attraction. I would say more people from England live in the ROI than NI too for the same reason that ROI is 2.5 × NI.

You should probably look at the rate at which people are going to live in a place if you're trying to infer a stronger connection.

There would be alot of brain drain from ROI graduates to london. Always was. Not so much NI. Also people would not need to move from the ROI to work in NI. Most likely would just drive.

NI does have an issue with a brain drain...a lot never come back.

It makes her a pretty damn good expert on healthcare reform, Blanch.

Corporate governance is precisely what we're talking about here; while active medical practitioners will certainly be an important voice, the meat and potatoes of reforming any service is (and should be) taken care of by those who's expertise is on the governance side.

Quite frankly if you DID know her role, your singling her out as, 'not an expert' on this topic is even more embarrassing.

While I wouldn't ask Anne O'Leary the best way to set up lighting to shoot a news broadcast, if I wanted to build a plan to reform RTE so the tax payer can get more value for money, I'd certainly value her opinion more than the set gofer or the cameraman. I might want to hear their opinions, but I wouldn't be dismissing Anne O'Leary as inexpert because she isn't a newsreader.

Nah, you're just talking sh*te on this one, Blanch. Someone who was a Director of a health service reform program absolutely cannot be dismissed as, 'not an expert' on the topic of f*cking health service reform with a simple, 'agree to disagree'.

We can move on if you want to run away from actually providing any justification for your madcap nonsense beyond, 'hur hur hur, Unification bad.....whatever Francie say, I say opposite', but I doubt that you'll find a single person who doesn't spend the majority of their day living in a padded room who will agree with you that someone who was an Executive Director of a healthcare reform program can be dismissed as, 'not an expert' on the bloody topic of healthcare reform.

Oh I forgot, we're using the, "how much they agree with Blanch" scale of expertise. You're a spoofer.

If that bonfire is wrong (and it is) then all that do the same are.

Burning in this way is also environmentally toxic by anyones logic and if unregulated - dangerous for those building them and taking part. How many have to be killed and injured before mature decisions are taken?

Here you are though and all you can do is play ‘look at themuns’ over something I readily condemn in any community doing it.

P.S. I was 'lauding' political representatives and youth bodies getting involved in diverting the energies of youths into positive expressions of their culture. They did this by first understanding why they were behaving as they were.

I see nothing only encouragment in the Unionist community and a pathetic attempt to claim once again that something toxic is a 'cultural pursuit' that must be defended. The youth don't have a chance.

The only person making a stand for this behaviour as a cultural right for youth is you. It has been rightly called out in any community it happens in by most others here.

We know for a fact that violence is as much a part of your community than most communities.

You want to live in denial that paramilitaries are controlling loyalist bonfires to control communities then carry on, none of the rest of us have to do that.

They threaten anyone who wishes to make them safe or regulate them, the world can see that happening and the world can see the efforts been made or not being made to control these toxic events or to replace them with positive cultural activities.

Once again a community is being left behind because their political leaders are too frightened to or don’t want to lead.

Orgies of violence you say?

Eleven paramedics attacked at bonfires on eve of Twelfth - BBC News

Police are pelted with rocks in second night of violent clashes in Belfast ahead of July 11 bonfires | Daily Mail Online

Trouble flares in Northern Ireland during Eleventh Night bonfires | BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

Violence is feared if council clears Belfast bonfire site | Independent.ie

Here are the bold statistics on what is happening re: bonfires. I would contend that it is because there are leaders on the ground changing archaic attitudes to these toxic events.

Full article: Vanity of the Bonfires? Eleventh Night Bonfires and Loyalist Influence After Negotiated Settlement in Northern Ireland (tandfonline.com)

As I said the Unionist community are behind the curve on this practice, which your own government has assessed is controlled by paramilitaries.

Instead of diminishing like they are elsewhere, these toxic events are getting bigger and more sectarian because those paramilitaries have convinced the PUL community that they are fighting a culture war. Here is what your own government found in a study:

Paramilitary control of loyalist bonfires exposed in leaked report - The Irish News

What happened in Derry is ALSO WRONG and you using those events to deflect away from and defend your own community is not tenable.