Russian warship, go f**k yourself!

We don't know and never will because Russia tells lies, America tells lies and Ukraine tells lies.

America put a lot of effort and money into trying to influence Ukraine so we can't actually know whether or not these surveys were American disinformation or not.

"The Swedish government lies, North Korea's dictatorship lies, so we can't trust either and can never know".

This is a cheap trick that people like Scott Ritter and Mick Wallace use. Reductionism whereby countries are "people" who are "equally bad". In this case you are attempting to put Ukraine's government on the same page as Putin's regime.

Pro-European groups and democratic organisations are not the same as totalitarian methods to strip a nation of it's sovereignty and forcefully absorb it.

You're a Ukrainian, do you want to align with free, democratic, prosperous Europe or align with authoritarian, corrupt Russia? The answer is a no brainer. International polls and a cursory understanding of the situation have shown this. Despite that, in the East, due in part to the Kremlin's efforts for years previous, a small majority signalled a desire for more federal independence from Kyiv (not to leave Ukraine). The Kremlin leveraged that to create the narrative that LNR and DNR wanted "full independence" (false), manufactured a conflict where one hadn't existed before, proxy invaded the region, then later just rolled the tanks in and absorbed it. They never had a choice. All the while manufacturing propaganda and that anything to the contrary was a lie by the "evil West" or the "Nazis" in Kyiv.

To pretend that's all some mystery and equate all participants is a feeble response and a cop out.

Another Russian bot

yes the welcomed the soldiers raping their wives and stealing their children.

Januokovych? It's Yanukovych.

He was a highly corrupt leader who "suddenly" reneged on his EU promises and went toward a Russian deal instead. In the subsequent mass protests, he had protesters shot, then was flown back to his motherland. He had stolen millions upon millions from the country. He's wanted by at least two countries on criminal charges. It's reported the Russians even wheeled him out for their invasion, as one of the potential "rulers" of their newly conquered territory, only to put him back into storage when they couldn't take the capital.

Yeah the Ukrainians did vote him in, they didn't know he was a Russian puppet who was going to sell them out in favour of the Kremlin.

Moscow believed Russian troops would be welcomed, they believed that Odessa and Kharkiv would surrender pretty quickly. They didn't, they fought back. Melitopol fought. There were regular demonstrations in Kherson. Predominantly speaking Mariupol fought. Settlements, towns and villages all over Ukraine set up tank traps and some even welcomed the Russians with TNT. Russian installed mayors have been offed. All the results of referendums in the occupied areas have needed to be faked.

Like you, they seem to have believed their own East/West narrative a little too much.

You are attempting to paint the East of Ukraine (and even South) as majority "pro-Moscow", which is directly contradicted by polls taken in 2014, showing only a minority favoured Russian control. Likewise, a majority of those in the East and South expressed a wish to remain part of Ukraine. You dismiss all that, coincidentally a view in line with the Kremlin who also project a very similar narrative.

People in Eastern Ukraine aligned with different politicians, sometimes with differing results from those in the West, that doesn't automatically mean they "wanted to be a part of Russia". Likewise they favoured more federal independence from Kyiv, and a considerable portion have favoured economic ties with Moscow, that doesn't automatically mean they wanted Russian forces to breach the border and take control.

In a roundabout way you are directly suggesting that people in Eastern (and Southern Ukraine) welcomed being invaded by Russia, which is a bizarre view, and that ultimately it's "healthy" because it satisfies the narrative you have on display here.

This is like comparing apples to oranges. Why ? Because if the voters were aware what Yanukovych was to do when it came to signing off on the UKr parliament decision to apply to join The EU and he refused to do so, WOULD the voters in the blue shaded areas STILL HAVE VOTED THE SAME WAY?

Does that somehow equate to them welcoming the Russian tanks over the border?

And Putin was happy with the status while Yanukovych ( his Stooge ) was running the show for him. Same as is happening in Georgia and Hungary. Only when Yanukovych was kicked out did the status of Ukraine become a problem.

More to unpick here as well.

You've made this strange Elon Musk-esque leap of equating voting for Yanukovych in 2010 as direct majority support for Donbas separatism or majority support for direct control of the region by Moscow. Yanukovych was born in Donetsk (and was always popular as a candidate there). Despite his views on a Russia that had yet to annex/invade Ukraine, he ran on an openly pro-EU ticket, not as Putin's puppet, that only became evident later. Likewise the level of his corruption only became evident later.

70% of people in Eastern Ukraine wanted Ukraine to remain sovereign, a fact that you can't address so you dismiss.

When armed Russian backed separatists held the vote, they were caught with 100,000 yes ballots, the whole thing was fraudulent, even they didn't trust the voters to vote for them, so they had to fake it. This is from a region that had virtually no recent history of armed violent separatism, it wasn't a thing in Donbas. Yet in 2014 it "suddenly" was. It's been revealed that it was almost entirely Russian backed and manufactured. Maybe you've (unwittingly?) swallowed too much Kremlin koolaid, but the notion that Donbas domestically went from practically 0 to violent self-rule over a span of several months (and shooting down airliners) is of course silly stuff.

The Russian proxy separatism has been economically disastrous for the region. From 2014 to 2018 industrial output in the region declined by up to 68%. That's not to mention horrendous effects of the conflict that Moscow manufactured on their doorstep where there wasn't one previously.

And now they have the invasion.

Healthy? Wow.

And are you therefor saying that ‘ the BLUE area voters also wanted to be 100% part of Russia with Putin or his replacements being their SUPREME RULER

It was vote for a Donetsk-born candidate in 2010. Who (at the time) was pro-EU.

You're mistaking it as a vote for separatism or control from Moscow.

You directly dismissed polls.

You're now making insults.

You're doubling down on a graphic of who people voted for in 2010 deciding it somehow means a vote for armed separatism or control from Moscow.

And Yanukovych was pro-EU. He ran on that ticket.

"For three hours Yanukovich cajoled and bullied anyone who pushed for Ukraine to have closer ties to Russia. A handful of deputies from his Party of Regions complained that their businesses in Ukraine’s Russian-speaking east would suffer if Yanukovich didn’t agree to closer ties with Russia. That set him off.

“Forget about it ... forever!” he shouted at them, according to people who attended the meeting. Instead the president argued for an agreement to deepen trade and other cooperation with the European Union.

Some deputies implored him to change his mind, people who attended the meeting told Reuters. Businessmen warned that a deal with the EU would provoke Russia - Ukraine’s former master in Soviet times - into toughening an economic blockade on Ukrainian goods. Yanukovich stood firm.

“We will pursue integration with Europe,” he barked back, according to three people who attended the meeting. He seemed dead set on looking west."