Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

FEC committee & final report - **UPDATE post 442**

Options
1…2728293133

Comments

  • Options
    #902
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120947068#Comment_120947068

    Nobody told anyone to do anything. There were suggestions if a person wanted to avoid having to tick the revocation box (which some may prefer).

    There was a notification or warning of sorts that come November 1st the license stands revoked and its an offence to benin possession of it after that date.

    As a club they are protecting the member and themselves from inadvertently committing an offense.

    As for it's not over yet. Wake up. It's more than over. Even if someone wanted to challenge the legislation it'll take more than 3 months, so your license stands revoked and you have to surrender it regardless.

    I'd love to know where all this fighting spirit was 8 years ago, 7 years ago, 6, 5, 4, hell even last year when something could have been possibly done. It's the typical "down with this sort of thing" attitude that always happen once we're told we cannot do something that most were not doing and had no intention of doing in the first place. The funny bit being the majority will still do nothing, even those losing their guns, and will hope someone else takes the cost and hassle of challenging this so they can walk it after.

    Same as what happened with pistols and here we are 15 years later and nothing has changed with regard to them. In 15 years the same will be true for these rifles.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Options
    #903
    freddieot
    Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭freddieot


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120947200#Comment_120947200

    Cass, I also get the the point about the SACFs continuing to 'exist legally' as Restricted firearms.

    However, this may be the intent, that they can if you like stay on the books as Restricted rifles , that simply are no longer fulfilling the requirements in order for them to be licensed again.

    This still creates an anomaly.

    A dealer takes possession of such a restricted firearm.

    It can never be licensed again within the State as it can never fall within any legal existing parameters in order for anyone to licence it.

    Therefore it no longer is a restricted firearm. At best it has no defined status and at worst is prohibited as is a grenade launcher for example for civilian use as nobody can license one of those either.

    As it is also not an unrestricted firearm, then it cannot be held by anyone, including the dealer. If a dealer could retain one of these then why not any type of firearm.

    Unless there is a process to take up these SACFs, that does not involve dealers then I can't see how the new law is workable. If it does not involve dealers then what about compensation as the state effectively seizes property. See where I'm going with this...

    Again, maybe I'm wrong, but those with skin in the game might be advised to dig deeper...



  • Options
    #904
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    The confusion, as it appears to me,.stems from you "crossing" licensing with firearm categorisation. I know they're linked but not to that extent.

    The new legislation, like in 2009, bans the issuing of licenses for these types of guns. I know that effectively makes them unable to be licensed, but the ban is on the licensing of them, not the firearm itself, because as said above if it were the guns pre-2015 would be banned too.

    The firearm is, and remains, a restricted firearm. Those able to seek renewals must apply for a restricted firearm license for it.

    If the firearms after 2015 were categorised as anything other than restricted (as you say possibly prohibited) then so too would those before 2015 as they are the same type of firearm and so to categorise the pre-2015 as prohibited would nullify the grandfathering aspect of the new legislation.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Options
    #905
    hiddenmongoose
    Registered Users Posts: 432 ✭✭hiddenmongoose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120947235#Comment_120947235

    yes they did..''asking you hand over your S/A CF firearms'' thats exactly what the poster stated..clubs asking people to hand over their guns.

    As for comments like ''wake up it is over'' and ''there are better ways to piss away 100 grand..just saying'' you are the very example of our fractured sport and all that is wrong with it.



  • Options
    #906
    freddieot
    Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭freddieot


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120947389#Comment_120947389

    I think we will have to agree to disagree. I see you point clearly but there is still an anomaly.

    I would maintain that the rifles pre 2015 would be restricted. They are restricted as per the terms if the legislation i.e. effectively only one person can ever licence them. That equals the restriction. Hence they will always be restricted.

    Those post 2015, once revoked, can never again be licensed. They can never be the subject of any restriction (licensing condition). Therefore they could never be deemed restricted.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #907
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120947433#Comment_120947433

    That is what the poster said, but not what the letter stated, hence my caveat above about missing context, bastardisation of intent, etc.

    The letter says that with the introduction of the new Act and the deadline of 3 months from the enactment of it, to surrender your firearm (now established as November 1st) here are some suggestions on how that might be accomplished.

    So the law says you have to do it, the club is trying to help guide people through the process.

    As for your thoughts about me and my impact on the status of the sport, maybe you're right. I've seen it all and watched for over 20 years while the same sort of people made the same mistakes and think somehow his time it'll be different because it's them, only to fail as miserably as the last.

    I've also witnessed some of the worse possible excuses of "representatives" for the various disciplines in our sports not only damage it beyond repair but happily sell it down the river if it helps benefit them personally (not their sport).

    So yeah, I'm fairly jaded but I still think my point is valid. It'll cost low size figures to challenge this Act and it'll fail so there are better ways to spend that money.

    As for the wake up comment, if you have some silver bullet idea or plan of action please do share. If not then I envy your naive hopefulness and wish you God speed on what is to come.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Options
    #908
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120947565#Comment_120947565

    There is no such thing as agree to disagree. One of us is right the other wrong. Who is whom I'll leave to others to decide as we have both out across our positions.

    One last thing to put to you. Where in the new act does it alter the status of the now banned, post 2015, restricted rifles? Show me that and I'll admit to my error. If you cannot then they haven't changed.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Options
    #909
    Munsterlad102
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    RE: proofing and a firearms having a gas system. Could you convert an AR-15 to straight pull using a Kali Key conversion kit and legally have that on a non restricted license, assuming it's over 90cm, not over 308 etc.



  • Options
    #910
    otmmyboy2
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    On proofing - The only necessity to reproof a firearm is if the bolt, barrel or other pressure bearing parts are modified, so something like a kali key which does not modify the above would not require reproofing the firearm.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Options
    #911
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,987 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    If you can get a Kali key in the EU that is.You would want to make the conversion "permanent" too by surrendering the semi auto bolt carrier group,which has the gun serial number to AGS,and getting the kali key engraved with your serial number,while re registering the gun as a "repeater" in the next 10 weeks.

    Doable if you get moving.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #912
    smmember20
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭smmember20


    https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/9672f-commencement-of-new-firearms-measures-under-the-criminal-justice-miscellaneous-provisions-act-2023/

    Sad day for anyone who had invested in a S/A since 2015, hardly realise any market value as the only prospect of sale is export to Europe/US.

    Might be no harm to consolidate to a dealer willing to sell and ship them all as a job lot out of the country, there may be some value in that mechanism, dont forget most S/A rifles can be converted to single shot straight pull.........................

    Post edited by smmember20 on


  • Options
    #913
    TheEngineer1
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭TheEngineer1


    Have FURG given out any information about any of the rest of the FEC proposals after their meeting with the minister or has that happened yet?



  • Options
    #914
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,987 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45



    image.png

    Might be a better option as a qualified gunsmith /dealer to offer a conversion to Cat C and sign off on it for those who want to go down that route?Rather than a "buy em cheap and make a profit off peoples misfortune!"

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Options
    #915
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    The next FFG politician to canvas my door will absolutely fcuked out of it, especially the useless TDs that I went to about this legislation.

    I'd nearly follow them around when they are canvassing my area and tell people what two-faced fcukers they are.



  • Options
    #916
    cosieman
    Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭cosieman


    22 pistols next on the chopping block



  • Options
    #917
    dalalada
    Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭dalalada


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120957763#Comment_120957763

    how do you know



  • Options
    #918
    smmember20
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭smmember20


    I would speculate that .22 pistols are secure into the future as long as our shooting community don't fup it up has been the case so often in the past



  • Options
    #919
    cosieman
    Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭cosieman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958047#Comment_120958047

    Never going to stop at this we thought it ended with centerfire pistols years ago they is always something next on the chopping block.



  • Options
    #920
    otmmyboy2
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    The laundry list of things they could go for next is essentially endless, bar b/a 22s, double barrel shotguns and possibly deer rifles.

    Beyond that everything is a potential target, and the state's stated firearms policy is unchanged:

    Reduce the number of licences and type of firearms available for licencing in Ireland.


    All pistols bar neutered 22lr are gone.

    CFSA rifles are going now.

    And given the extra information now being required on the FCA1 form they will be using that to determine the next segment of firearms they can isolate and sever.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Options
    #921
    BSA International
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭BSA International


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120957763#Comment_120957763

    Would be high on list I'd say.

    "Olympic" or the "list" that was produced previously may be safe for a while.

    The M1911 lookalikes & ones like Sig 22 conversions would be top of list.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #922
    freddieot
    Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭freddieot


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959044#Comment_120959044

    Nothing on a previous Olympic or other list is safe. A lot of that thinking has been wiped out by court cases. It will be all or nothing if 22 handguns are threatened. They dont want elaborate court battles as to why some sig or taurus is actually potentially more accurate than another listed olympic model. Personally, while handguns are on the agenda I think it's not top of the list.

    Best policy for individuals is to get anything you want right Now, have one licensed, before some other plank quotes a cut off date.



  • Options
    #923
    dalalada
    Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭dalalada


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959113#Comment_120959113

    What do you think is top of the list then?



  • Options
    #924
    BSA International
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭BSA International


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959269#Comment_120959269

    It'll be stuff with small numbers affected like the recent s/a grab.


    In no particular order :

    Pistols

    Restricted shotguns

    Restricted rifles eg .338 Lapua

    10/22's were on their wish list previously

    Mag capacity of all firearms

    Moderators

    Night & thermal vision



  • Options
    #925
    freddieot
    Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭freddieot


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959269#Comment_120959269

    I don't think it's helpful to publicly discuss what exactly could be next. Ptb read these posts several times per day. They can create enough problems without getting prompts.

    That said, as has often been commented, the overall objective would be to leave unrestricted shotguns, .22 ba and a few hunting calibres.

    The method is stealth, piecemeal and grand fathering.

    Get what you want now, whether it's a 22 handgun, a lever action, a semi shotgun or a 308, don't wait until a law is in place that stops you.



  • Options
    #926
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,987 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Maybe instead of all speculating what might be cut off next.It might be a better idea that we individually and collectively start also taking our organisations to account and start demanding as to what their future plans are to prevent another segment of our sports from being destroyed. After all, YOU are paying membership of these orgs and should expect some accountability? Maybe on things like why AGS is acting that a bunch of recommendations in a report, are being treated as law by them?Called exceeding your authority...Why is that being tolerated by us? The simple way to deal with any future bans is simply don't give AGS an INCH!!! As they will take MILES. If there hadn't been 23 court cases on SACF,s and the large-cal handguns there would be NONE now.Ditto the .22 pistols mag capacity in the HC case.

    This is now the price we pay if you want to continue shooting here.Be prepared to fight and elect people in your organisations who are willing to fight their corner.There is too much at stake anymore to just elect "Tim nice but dim" as your rep. When you need "Jack Reacher" to deal with the problem.

    .

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Options
    #927
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭Feisar


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959970#Comment_120959970

    That's all well and good however lets say they start looking at 22LR handguns next. What exactly can be done to prevent it? There is no cohesive voting block we can leverage to stop it. If something can be legally challenged ultimately they will shore up the legislation. I sound defeatist however I believe my point of view to be realistic.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Options
    #928
    TheEngineer1
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭TheEngineer1


    FURG needs to become a become a full time organisation governing all hunting and shooting sports in Ireland and absorb all the other shooting organisations. It then needs to lobby its members to vote for pro shooting sports candidates in elections and be willing to fight court cases on behalf of its members.

    It's not going to happen but that is what needs to be done. It's the only way to form a coherent voting block.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120960368#Comment_120960368




  • Options
    #929
    BSA International
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭BSA International


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120960750#Comment_120960750

    NARGC asked it's members to vote FG after pistol vendetta and FG then reneged on all their pre election promises once in power ..........

    FURG, waste of time same as all previous incarnations of same.

    Future bans/restrictions, BOHICA ......

    Post edited by BSA International on


  • Options
    #930
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120961135#Comment_120961135

    What's your suggestion? Do nothing? If we do nothing, we will surely get it up the ass.

    We need a united group to fight on our behalf.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #931
    BSA International
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭BSA International


    My suggestions :

    Enjoy what you have while you have it as every new application or renewal is now an Eircode lottery.

    Unless you, as an individual, are willing to go to Court bend over, apply vaseline & take it. Gardai are a law unto themselves when it comes to firearms.

    The shooting organisations we currently have or will have in the future will not do anything to make things better unless new, competent people take it on.

    One all encompassing organisation will never happen and any of us around a while know why.

    Any victory we've won we loose sooner or later.

    Post edited by BSA International on


Advertisement