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What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    First of all, the second allegation is false. I stand by everything I've ever said, despite your misrepresentations of my views -- both past and present.

    Second, my position on Trump has nothing to do with the so-called "alt right". I don't subscribe to alt-right ideology and so that smear is just that, a smear.

    Just to clarify, this is what alt-right refers to:

    The alt-right (abbreviated from alternative right) is a far-right, white nationalist, white supremacist, anti-LGBT, anti-immigration and antifeminist movement. 

    There may be some who support Trump who identify as alt-right; but I'm neither alt-right nor some ceaseless supporter of Trump.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Well - We can prove that that are because the leaders of the committee ,Jim Jordan and James Comer have explicitly told us they are.

    They have said quite clearly that the sole purpose of the investigations is to find dirt on Joe Biden.

    And just yesterday , James Comer has now said that they "Don't need actual evidence" to allow them to say that Joe Biden is corrupt , insinuation is perfectly fine it seems.

    So far, it appears the committee has not found any direct evidence that President Biden personally benefited from any of his son’s business dealings. Republicans are now insisting they don’t have to.




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    House investigations are politically motivated, becuase there are politicians involved. Federal investigations are not. Good to know you can see the difference



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,710 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    Everyone is far right these days it would seem.

    I go back to a couple of excellent quotes by Thomas Sowell which perfectly encapsulate the left-right ethos.

    "Thinking in terms of left or right, conservative or liberal, is not an accurate way to understand the current cultural moment. A far more accurate lens is cognitive liberty: those who demand you think a certain way are on one side while those who do not are on the other."

    "Too many people today act as if no one can honestly disagree with them. If you have a difference of opinion with them, you are considered to be not merely in error but in sin. You are a racist, a homophobe or whatever the villain of the day happens to be."



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,456 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    This isn't the Hunter Biden thread or Joe Biden thread.

    Everything Congress itself does inevitably has a political motivation to it. They're politicians ffs. They're elected representatives. Not the same can be said of the DOJ, who neither have to convince plebs to vote for them every 2 years with tweets and zingers, nor are they tenured and they can be fired for being bad at their jobs.

    We can definitively say the Comer probe is politically motivated, with ample evidence to support that claim - particularly, Comer keeps repeating accusations, in search of evidence, even when he repeatedly comes up empty, even uncovering exculpatory information at times. The David Weiss prosecution however, it would be difficult to suggest his prosecution of Hunter Biden is or was politically motivated. No reasonable person could argue an apolitical investigation involves doing constant press to assert your suspicions are still true, when your own investigation keeps contradicting that. Did you see John Durham or David Weiss doing fox news and newsmax interviews to propagate their theories ahead of evidence? In your hole you did. But Comer is on TV every other day alleging his conspiracy theories about the "Biden Crime Family"

    As for Trump Congress didn't have any part in the documents case, and the Jan 6 hearings were accused from the very outset of being political (and again, Congress is a political body), however they did uncover evidence, made their criminal referrals and DOJ special counsel took that referral on, the same way Weiss took on his referral. If Comer had as many Democratic witnesses coming out and explicitly incriminating Joe Biden the way Republicans have gone under oath and incriminated Donald Trump, and provided receipts for in a lot of cases, then Comer would actually have something to refer to the DOJ. But he doesn't, John Durham doesn't, David Weiss doesn't. Meanwhile multiple grand juries across the country have indicted Donald Trump, and Americans have seen a lot of evidence, much of it right out there in public.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 82,456 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    With all due respect this isn't about an intolerance for a disagreement of opinion?

    You presented an opinion - 'these prosecutions are politically motivated' (because, reason given: a lot of other people think the same way...)

    Just seems rather circular, isn't it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 866 ✭✭✭I.R.Y.E.D


    I thought you claimed to never engage with rereg accounts?

    As far the rest of your post, you are wrong again people call people racist etc when they are and given it is trump he provides the evidence himself.

    Now you might not understand this, or why decent people don't like people who are generally repulsive cúnts but that is something only you can reflect on as to why.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,578 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    This is roughly what I was expecting, more nonsense.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub



    The fundamental issue here is not that Trump has been charged , but how he is responding to those charges.

    According to Trump it's all a witch-hunt and it is impossible for him to get a fair trial because the entire Justice system is corrupt, despite the fact that a large swathe of the people involved were placed in their roles by Republicans or indeed Trump himself in some cases.

    He is not saying "This is politically motivated, but I am innocent and the evidence will prove that and I will be vindicated" or whatever.

    Rather than fight the charges he is choosing to discredit the entire system and that is why his actions are so damaging.

    The damage that Trump continues to do to the mechanisms of State cannot be under-stated.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Trump went on NewsMax yesterday to spout his usual nonsense about everything except this time, Newsmax had to insert a little disclaimer at the end of the Interview.

    They basically allowed Trump to tell all his lies about how he "won the election by hundreds of thousands of votes" etc. etc. and then cut back to the Studio where the host says "No he didn't" to try to stop themselves getting sued(again).

    No attempt to call him out for it live of course , that would require the presence of a spine.

    Pathetic.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No, Trump isn't racist.

    Does he say politically incorrect statements? Yes, often for publicity and effect. But he is not outwardly racist at all.

    Many black voters opted for Trump in both elections - with more black voters opting for Trump in 2020 than in 2016.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,489 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Well I mean...there is this, and how he acted towards the Central Park Five.

    Are you sure "many" black voters voted for him? Have you had a chat with them?



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,456 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Yes, like Uncle Ruckus, and Herman Cain.

    Denials without evidence dismissed with evidence.

    Here’s a breakdown of Trump’s history, taken largely from Dara Lind’s list for Vox and an op-ed by Nicholas Kristof in the New York Times:

    1973: The US Department of Justice — under the Nixon administration, out of all administrations — sued the Trump Management Corporation for violating the Fair Housing Act. Federal officials found evidence that Trump had refused to rent to Black tenants and lied to Black applicants about whether apartments were available, among other accusations. Trump said the federal government was trying to get him to rent to welfare recipients. In the aftermath, he signed an agreement in 1975 agreeing not to discriminate to renters of color without admitting to previous discrimination.

    1980s: Kip Brown, a former employee at Trump’s Castle, accused another one of Trump’s businesses of discrimination. “When Donald and Ivana came to the casino, the bosses would order all the black people off the floor,” Brown said. “It was the eighties, I was a teenager, but I remember it: They put us all in the back.”

    1989: In a controversial case that’s been characterized as a modern-day lynching, four Black teenagers and one Latino teenager — the “Central Park Five” — were accused of attacking and raping a jogger in New York City. Trump immediately took charge in the case, running an ad in local papers demanding, “BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY. BRING BACK OUR POLICE!” The teens’ convictions were later vacated after they spent seven to 13 years in prison, and the city paid $41 million in a settlement to the teens. But Trump in October 2016 said he still believes they’re guilty, despite the DNA evidence to the contrary.

    1991: A book by John O’Donnell, former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, quoted Trump’s criticism of a Black accountant: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.” Trump later said in a 1997 Playboy interview that “the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true.”

    1992: The Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino had to pay a $200,000 fine because it transferred Black and women dealers off tables to accommodate a big-time gambler’s prejudices.

    1993: In congressional testimony, Trump said that some Native American reservations operating casinos shouldn’t be allowed because “they don’t look like Indians to me.”

    2000: In opposition to a casino proposed by the St. Regis Mohawk tribe, which he saw as a financial threat to his casinos in Atlantic City, Trump secretly ran a series of ads suggesting the tribe had a “record of criminal activity [that] is well documented.”

    2004: In season two of The Apprentice, Trump fired Kevin Allen, a Black contestant, for being overeducated. “You’re an unbelievably talented guy in terms of education, and you haven’t done anything,” Trump said on the show. “At some point you have to say, ‘That’s enough.’”

    2005: Trump publicly pitched what was essentially The Apprentice: White People vs. Black People. He said he “wasn’t particularly happy” with the most recent season of his show, so he was considering “an idea that is fairly controversial — creating a team of successful African Americans versus a team of successful whites. Whether people like that idea or not, it is somewhat reflective of our very vicious world.”

    2010: In 2010, there was a huge national controversy over the “Ground Zero Mosque” — a proposal to build a Muslim community center in Lower Manhattan, near the site of the 9/11 attacks. Trump opposed the project, calling it “insensitive,” and offered to buy out one of the investors in the project. On The Late Show With David Letterman, Trump argued, referring to Muslims, “Well, somebody’s blowing us up. Somebody’s blowing up buildings, and somebody’s doing lots of bad stuff.”

    2011: Trump played a big role in pushing false rumors that Obama — the country’s first Black president — was not born in the US. He claimed to send investigators to Hawaii to look into Obama’s birth certificate. Obama later released his birth certificate, calling Trump a “carnival barker.” The research has found a strong correlation between birtherism, as the conspiracy theory is called, and racism. But Trump has reportedly continued pushing this conspiracy theory in private.

    2011: While Trump suggested that Obama wasn’t born in the US, he also argued that maybe Obama wasn’t a good enough student to have gotten into Columbia or Harvard Law School, and demanded Obama release his university transcripts. Trump claimed, “I heard he was a terrible student. Terrible. How does a bad student go to Columbia and then to Harvard?”

    For many people, none of these incidents, individually, may be damning: One of these alone might suggest that Trump is simply a bad speaker and perhaps racially insensitive (“politically incorrect,” as he would put it), but not overtly racist.


    Donald Trump’s history of encouraging hate groups and violence, from 2015 to 2020

    But when you put all these events together, a clear pattern emerges. At the very least, Trump has a history of playing into people’s racism to bolster himself — and that likely says something about him, too.

    And, of course, there’s everything that’s happened through and since his presidential campaign.

    As a candidate and president, Trump has made many more racist comments

    On top of all that history, Trump has repeatedly made racist — often explicitly so — remarks on the campaign trail and as president:

    Trump launched his campaign in 2015 by calling Mexican immigrants “rapists” who are “bringing crime” and “bringing drugs” to the US. His campaign was largely built on building a wall to keep these immigrants out of the US.

    As a candidate in 2015, Trump called for a ban on all Muslims coming into the US. His administration eventually implemented a significantly watered-down version of the policy.

    When asked at a 2016 Republican debate whether all 1.6 billion Muslims hate the US, Trump said, “I mean a lot of them. I mean a lot of them.”

    He argued in 2016 that Judge Gonzalo Curiel — who was overseeing the Trump University lawsuit — should recuse himself from the case because of his Mexican heritage and membership in a Latino lawyers association. House Speaker Paul Ryan, who endorsed Trump, later called such comments “the textbook definition of a racist comment.”

    Trump has been repeatedly slow to condemn white supremacists who endorse him, and he regularly retweeted messages from white supremacists and neo-Nazis during his presidential campaign.

    He tweeted and later deleted an image that showed Hillary Clinton in front of a pile of money and by a Jewish Star of David that said, “Most Corrupt Candidate Ever!” The tweet had some very obvious anti-Semitic imagery, but Trump insisted that the star was a sheriff’s badge, and said his campaign shouldn’t have deleted it.

    Trump has repeatedly referred to Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) as “Pocahontas,” using her controversial — and later walked-back — claims to Native American heritage as a punchline.

    At the 2016 Republican convention, Trump officially seized the mantle of the “law and order” candidate — an obvious dog whistle playing to white fears of Black crime, even though crime in the US is historically low. His speeches, comments, and executive actions after he took office have continued this line of messaging.

    In a pitch to Black voters in 2016, Trump said, “You’re living in poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs, 58 percent of your youth is unemployed. What the hell do you have to lose?”

    Trump stereotyped a Black reporter at a press conference in February 2017. When April Ryan asked him if he plans to meet and work with the Congressional Black Caucus, he repeatedly asked her to set up the meeting — even as she insisted that she’s “just a reporter.”

    In the week after white supremacist protests in Charlottesville, Virginia, in August 2017, Trump repeatedly said that “many sides” and “both sides” were to blame for the violence and chaos that ensued — suggesting that the white supremacist protesters were morally equivalent to counterprotesters who stood against racism. He also said that there were “some very fine people” among the white supremacists. All of this seemed like a dog whistle to white supremacists — and many of them took it as one, with white nationalist Richard Spencer praising Trump for “defending the truth.”

    Throughout 2017, Trump repeatedly attacked NFL players who, by kneeling or otherwise silently protesting during the national anthem, demonstrated against systemic racism in America.

    Trump reportedly said in 2017 that people who came to the US from Haiti “all have AIDS,” and he lamented that people who came to the US from Nigeria would never “go back to their huts” once they saw America. The White House denied that Trump ever made these comments.

    Speaking about immigration in a bipartisan meeting in January 2018, Trump reportedly asked, in reference to Haiti and African countries, “Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?” He then reportedly suggested that the US should take more people from countries like Norway. The implication: Immigrants from predominantly white countries are good, while immigrants from predominantly Black countries are bad.

    Trump denied making the “shithole” comments, although some senators present at the meeting said they happened. The White House, meanwhile, suggested that the comments, like Trump’s remarks about the NFL protests, will play well to his base. The only connection between Trump’s remarks about the NFL protests and his “shithole” comments is race.

    Trump mocked Elizabeth Warren’s presidential campaign, again calling her “Pocahontas” in a 2019 tweet before adding, “See you on the campaign TRAIL, Liz!” The capitalized “TRAIL” is seemingly a reference to the Trail of Tears — a horrific act of ethnic cleansing in the 19th century in which Native Americans were forcibly relocated, causing thousands of deaths.

    Trump tweeted later that year that several Black and brown members of Congress — Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), Ayanna Pressley (D-MA), Ilhan Omar (D-MN), and Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) — are “from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe” and that they should “go back” to those countries. It’s a common racist trope to say that Black and brown people, particularly immigrants, should go back to their countries of origin. Three of the four members of Congress whom Trump targeted were born in the US.

    Trump has called the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus the “Chinese virus” and “kung flu.” The World Health Organization advises against linking a virus to any particular region, since it can lead to stigma. Trump’s adviser, Kellyanne Conway, previously described the term “kung flu” as “highly offensive.” Meanwhile, Asian Americans have reported hateful incidents targeting them due to the spread of the coronavirus.

    Trump suggested that Kamala Harris, who’s Black and South Asian, “doesn’t meet the requirements” to be former Vice President and Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden’s running mate — yet another example of birtherism.

    This list is not comprehensive, instead relying on some of the major examples since Trump announced his candidacy. But once again, there’s a pattern of racism and bigotry here that suggests Trump isn’t just misspeaking; it is who he is.

    But I'm sure you can't begin to possibly address any one of these points and it might be weeks before you can get back to us. 'He's not racist but he's just racist for optics' is a really pathetic argument IMHO.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    "Many"

    He got 8% of the Black vote - That's not "Many" in anybodies language.

    And yes he is absolutely a racist as evidenced by decades and decades of things he has said and done.

    Here's an article from the same outlet you quoted detailing he extensive history of racism and bigotry.

    1991: A book by John O’Donnell, former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, quoted Trump’s criticism of a Black accountant: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.” Trump later said in a 1997 Playboy interview that “the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How can you possibly expect me to go through all those separate alleged cases of racism?

    If you want me to address a specific allegation, I will. But it's not pragmatic to expect me to address the entire post.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,970 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    That might be the hint you need that because there's so much documentation of it you cant hand wave away his racism?



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,456 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Like I said, weeks till you can get back to us. Very predictable clap.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,456 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    There's just so much categorical and damning evidence of his racism to wade through, we must file a motion to delay discovery on this until after the election, how else can you possibly expect anyone to prove Trump isn't racist? /s



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,485 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    There's no evidence Trump is a racist.

    Presented with the evidence.

    There's too much evidence! You're going to be using that line a lot as Trump's indictments come to court.

    Or you know, you can take a look at some of them and assess if your opinion of Trump is wrong. At the very least, consider there is a reasonable basis to accuse Trump of racist behaviour.

    Instead, any excuse is reached for to maintain the hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil approach when it comes to Trump.

    Even after he was found liable for sexual assault in a court of law, you still tried to defend him.

    Even he publicly continued to defame the victim, you still tried to defend him.

    Or admit that no evidence will be enough to convince you of Trump's guilt.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 866 ✭✭✭I.R.Y.E.D


    No, Trump isn't racist

    Horse shít, same as your claims Farage isn't when both of them supply ample evidence that you ignore for some reason.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    "Ah, the boxes were just resting in my bathroom, Your Honour!"

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    First of all, the second allegation is false. I stand by everything I've ever said, despite your misrepresentations of my views -- both past and present.


    your attempts at gaslighting are entirely in vain. your post has been quoted back to you numerous times now.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just to take one example from the list, it quotes Donald Trump firing a contestant on The Apprentice, claiming the firing took place because the contestant is black.

    That is simply invented. It's completely made up.

    I could go through other examples too; it's littered with absurd fictitious examples of alleged racism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Once again, this goes back to you saying pretty much every instance of racism isn't racist... It's also a slight diversion from how the cases against Trump are perfectly legitimate. Your logic would prevent any political candidate from being prosecuted.... We're still over a year out from the election and multiple grand juries have concluded there's a strong case for multiple different crimes.


    Prosecution needs to happen cause he literally tried to override their democratic institutions, he broke multiple laws and makes Nixon seem innocuous. Leaving him off while he runs for office again would be a complete failure of the system.


    And no, you wouldn't be getting outraged if this was a non GOP politician. In fact, you'd most likely be calling for a prosecution cause you view them as unfit for office. You equally wouldn't be downplaying them being a rapist either....


    One final point, it's a weird scenario where you come out to defend racists and claim they're not racist in multiple separate discussions over the course of a week. He's a racist, misogynistic and hateful idiot. That's a fair summary of him and it's always gonna be a stain on America's history.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,485 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.”

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Plus that time he pushed a conspiracy that Obama was a Kenyan citizen... All normal!



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,456 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Are you suuuuure it's made up? Are you sure you aren't just in denial, and haven't even bothered to click on the supporting evidence they provided, or looked up corroborating or contradictory information?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,485 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Was Obama born in Kenya? I don't know that.

    Were they the sort of racist dog whistling weasel words used?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    "Just to take one example from the list, it quotes Donald Trump firing a contestant on The Apprentice, claiming the firing took place because the contestant is black."


    So, you picked the most ridiculous one, because it's easy to refute.


    Perhaps you'd like to say whether:

    “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.”

    is racist? Perhaps it was taken out of context? Or he was joking?

    For the umpteenth time, Esky, no one is buying this.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I believe that's a quote from a book from someone critical of Trump? Someone who somehow and conveniently memorized a quote verbatim, all whilst trying to sell his book?

    Trump made light of the comments when it was referred back to him, but even Trump didn't admit he said them. He responded by saying they "were probably true". Whether he meant this sarcastically or not, I don't know.

    What I do know is that I can't take the quote seriously because it wasn't from a recording or any primary source material.



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