Cycle to Work dealer upping advertised price.

DaveyDave · 03-08-2023 3:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120855426#Comment_120855426

They're hilarious and the majority of them aren't even shaped like regular bicycles. They look like mopeds or cafe racer style motorbikes. A lot of them don't even have adjustable saddles. They're all BMX style wheels which aren't repairable and fat bike tyres so heavy, handle like shít and slow, so on an ebike you're just throwing range away. Then you have the ones with the weird suspension and tiny shock on the rear, have fun when those Chinesium parts leak oil and don't function.

They're for people who have no idea what bicycles should look like. I'm sure the local bike shop loves working on them!

0ph0rce0 · 03-08-2023 4:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120935159#Comment_120935159

I have one of these cheapo chinese ebikes. They are easily maintained just like a regular bike.

If some parts are shite there's plenty of affordable upgrades available out there.

I don't have to wait on a bus, I don't need to take the car and sit in traffic, It gets me to A to B and couldn't give a **** what it or I look like while on it 🤷

I also own a "REAL BIKE"

Weepsie · 03-08-2023 4:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933074#Comment_120933074

Bleeding hell. Revenue needs to have a long hard look at your company to be honest. Some sharp practice going on

...Ghost... · 03-08-2023 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933076#Comment_120933076

Is it really a warranty if a buyer receives a bike with a damaged component and you expect the buyer to pay 30-60 euro for fitting a part? What does the value of the bike have to do with the price of labour anyway?

My brother-in-law received his bike with a damaged gear shifter. You sent him a replacement part, but have not agreed to pay for the installation of the part which is not possible without the correct tools. Bike shops won't fit the part because he didn't buy it from them, or they don't work on electric bikes. This was several months ago and the gear shifter is still not installed.

After less than 1500kms, the controller is fried, with the motor wire connector melted and burned. I believe a new one will be shipped to him and I can replace it for him, but it's just not good enough!!

For a bike costing 2 grand, I would personally expect better quality and much better service. You are shafting your customers if they have to pay towards the warranty repair. That's a fact. I would be looking for a full refund, but my brother in law has too much patience for you.

CantGetNoSleep · 07-08-2023 12:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120936352#Comment_120936352

To be fair, many on this thread advised your brother-in-law to consider buying a reputable brand from a local shop, even if it cost a bit more. I don't think his experience is a complete shock

DaveyDave · 07-08-2023 12:21pm

Customers shouldn't be paying for labour in the case of warranty issues. I bought a bike online with Canyon and their Irish service partner worked on the bike for free, including free return courier. My local shop worked on my mountain bike for free and even gave me free stuff for the hassle.

magicbastarder · 07-08-2023 12:28pm

i'm not sure if that is legal - if you're selling a faulty good and charge the customer to fix that faulty good, that's surely in clear violation of consumer protection law?

Weepsie · 07-08-2023 12:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120948781#Comment_120948781

You are selling them without vat unless it's bike to work. That makes absolutely zero sense. Either they have vat on them or they don't.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120948814#Comment_120948814

This isn't how warranty generally works.

...Ghost... · 07-08-2023 4:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120948814#Comment_120948814

That is NOT a warranty. A part is useless if the customer is unable to replace it. What is worse, is the bike arrived with the damage which the customer could not fix and he is now paying a local bike shop to fix it. The bike shop won't use the part you sent, because its garbage. They insisted on ordering an oem part they can trust.

If you can't afford to cover the cost of labour for warranty repairs, then your margin is too low. Anything other than a cost free repair is not a warranty. Your reputation will not be long catching up with you unless you change how you deal with these issues.

...Ghost... · 07-08-2023 4:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120948817#Comment_120948817

He wanted what he wanted. I've had warranty issues with brick and mortar stores before with reputable brands. A memorable one; I went through 3 Garmin sat navs in as many months and had to threaten Halfords with the SCC to get out of a rinse and repeat cycle of exchanges. Generally I have had better service online tbh. POGO just seem to have trouble telling arse from elbow when it comes to VAT and Warranty.

magicbastarder · 07-08-2023 4:31pm

from the consumer protection website:

When a good has a fault, you can decide if you want a repair or replacement. It should be provided by the business:

within a reasonable time
without significant inconvenience to you
free of charge

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/faulty-goods/

emphasis mine. you cannot simply say 'our goods are too cheap to offer free restitution when faulty'; that's illegal.

for someone who has been running a 'retail' business (or whatever you call it) you seem remarkably (perhaps wilfully) ignorant of the duties and responsibilities you have.

CramCycle · 07-08-2023 6:01pm

I can't even find the time to list all.of the faults with pogos posts. I'll shorten it down to, just because you have been getting away with it does not mean it is right or legal.

CramCycle · 08-08-2023 8:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950963#Comment_120950963

First of all, VAT should be included regardless of whether you use the bike to work scheme. So this leaves three options, one the companies you act as forward shippers aren't including it and somehow dodging customs (it is a legal requirement to include a VAT invoice on all intra EU sales), very unlikely or two, you are using the bike to work scheme as an excuse to increase the price by 23% (comically it was 21% on your website until recently which again hints at it simply being a surcharge you made sound like VAT). I should note at this point, it says very clearly on your website that "[ All Custom and Import Duty already paid ]". The last option is that you don't know how tax works and you are not removing the VAT paid by the seller and then adding VAT to the overall but that is odd. You should be adding your margin to cover costs and profits to the price you buy in ex VAT and then adding VAT to the overall. Just to be clear, if you just said, we are a forward shipping company but if you want an invoice from us we will add a commission and VAT on said commission, to cover admin and possible warranty issues, then you would be fine. Very simple.

You are not providing adequate (and by that I mean legally adequate) warranties, you have already described this.

Did it ever occur to you that the reason yours are so cheap is because you are skimping on legally required aspects of selling. As well as legally wrong it is morally dubious.

Also laughing that since you are verified that your company are actually OK with you coming onto a site and effectively admitting to either inadequacies or fraud (intentional or unintentional).

Also "T&Cs vetted legally" has nothing to do with VAT, and they mean diddly squat in regards a customers statutory rights but thankfully for you, I imagine most customers think, well, that is what I agreed to.

Anyway, I am out, your story keeps changing with every post but none of them are more legal than the one before. Best of luck

Nigzcurran · 08-08-2023 11:38am

I smell bull ****

...Ghost... · 09-08-2023 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120951957#Comment_120951957

That might be the smell of another burnt out controller the customer has to pay to have installed under warranty.

ted1 · 09-08-2023 3:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933074#Comment_120933074

You say you are a market place and not a shop, then you say you are the most affordable bike shop .

comedy…

DaveyDave · 09-08-2023 5:03pm

The fact that some of these bikes are 35-40kg is insane. I know the bigger ones have 900-1,200whr batteries but the weight must be down to cheap/heavy components like how some cheap Halfords bikes are super heavy. I rented a beefy mountain bike with 750whr battery that was 25kg and that's on the heavy side of the scales.

Bigger batteries also won't necessarily get you further. EMBN tested the 360whr Orbea Rise against a 600whr Canyon with the Orbea using a detuned version of the same motor and the Orbea lasted longer. Obviously more rider input was required but 60Nm is good torque slouch.

35-40kg would be impossible when off the bike, flipping it over to fix punctures, moving it around, getting it into a car etc.

ted1 · 10-08-2023 9:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958877#Comment_120958877

So you are a shop and not a marketplace

standardg60 · 10-08-2023 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958855#Comment_120958855

Well that's a turn up for the books, if there were any books to begin with.

Weepsie · 10-08-2023 5:36pm

Your new site says no taxes or customs, then slaps on the taxes at the checkout.

Bold strategy taking the biketoworkscheme.ie domain too.

Weepsie · 10-08-2023 5:39pm

What was wrong with your other domain? https://www.letscycle.ie/

...Ghost... · 10-08-2023 6:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958855#Comment_120958855

It's good to see you have now listed a price which will not change for BTW scheme. That is a big improvement and it is the way it should have been from the beginning. While the bike is no longer the cheapest example, it is now listed presumably with the cost of VAT covered.

Your warranty situation seems unchanged however. The customer should not be expected to make repairs to the bike, or to pay for a warranty repair when labour is outsourced. You need to have an agreement with partner shops, or mobile bike mechanics to replace faulty parts for the customer. Most customers will not require warranty service/labour. Some will replace parts themselves, saving themselves the hassle of waiting for a repair AND saving you the cost from the bike-shop. You need to recognise that many people have neither the tools, nor the technical ability to replace the simple things on a bike, such as a saddle, or light, let alone a motor, or gear shifter.

You need to offer better here.

magicbastarder · 10-08-2023 7:36pm

Your warranty situation seems unchanged however.

s/he mentioned 'All costs of partner shop is covered and all taxes are mentioned in the pricing.' and in a separate post, 'We have addressed 2 problems that were highlighted on the thread price going up and warranty support'

is this to mean that when a bike has an issue, pogo are paying the partner shop for labour, and also supplying parts?

magicbastarder · 10-08-2023 7:36pm

i'm still curious - if you buy a bike from pogo's 'marketplace', who do you actually pay? pogo, or some foreign seller?

Weepsie · 10-08-2023 7:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120962005#Comment_120962005

It's not actually listedwith vat. VAT is shown at checkout

...Ghost... · 10-08-2023 8:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120962214#Comment_120962214

From their warranty page:

REPAIRS

To request a repair, please write an email to: support@pogocycles.com
The serial number, description of the issue, a short video or photos and the invoice (PDF) should be included in your email.
We will respond within 24 - 48 hours after receiving your email.
If the issue is detected, the company will send a new part with an instruction video on how to replace it.

Nothing mentioned about labour being covered.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120962241#Comment_120962241

Holy cow!! So the site has a few bugs alright, but one I am considering buying has gone from €1,499 for the 26Ah version on pogocycles "marketplace" to a whopping €1,973, including the €369 VAT. So VAT clearly is not being paid when going through pogocycles.com .

€1,499 x 23% VAT is only €1,844, so unless the extra €129 is for potential warranty issues (which is not mentioned on their new website), it's an additional fee I can't account for.

Listing the bikes without VAT is pretty crappy. The price should be listed with VAT included.

I can very safely say I won't be using them for the bike I plan to order in the very near future.

Weepsie · 10-08-2023 9:54pm

Also if you out something in basket and go to checkout but don't complete you get an unsolicited Whatsapp message, it autofilled when I put in email. You'd really want to cut that **** out.

blackbox · 10-08-2023 10:11pm

When selling in Ireland, prices for goods and services sold to consumers must always show the total price, including Value Added Tax (VAT).

I don't believe that only showing it when you go to checkout satisfies this requirement.

Weepsie · 11-08-2023 7:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963401#Comment_120963401

Yeah not to my phone number though. You have **** all right to be doing that. There was no opt in.

traco · 11-08-2023 11:13am

What name is on the invoice? Whomever it is has the legal responsibility to provide warranty and should also have product indemnity insurance should the product fail in such a way that causes injury. The importer is the entity that is legally reposbible for all compliance such as CE compliance etc.

The donedeal arguement is rubbish as Mercedes will post an advert for a new car and you go and but from the garage who's name is on the invoice along with their vat number etc etc. Same for new motorbikes, boats and dealers advertising new bicycles.

If its used you buy from the seller directly and can get a reciept from them.

You amazon arguement is also rubbish, I can look at any order I have place on amazon that has been fulfilled by amazon. the Amazon invoice shows that amazon has shown the vat amount due that that they have declared that vat to irish customs and revenue. It also tells me who the original seller is and I can request an invoice from them also for my records.

Cycle to Work dealer upping advertised price.

Comments

REPAIRS