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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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    #95252
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,353 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964045#Comment_120964045

    And again you seem to be trying to draw equivalence, or a sense of moral absolutism that because some in Western society are socially admonished or disowned, that there's similarity between that and the actions of state-supported and controlled suppression that scales up to jail-time for critics of the government or "othered" classes of people.

    There's really no comparison here, and TBH maybe your point is better served by giving an example of (say) Irish or UK person(s) who would be a good example of this going on - and why it's similar. Otherwise it strikes as a very abstract, slightly hand-waved attempt to draw parallels.



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    #95253
    Seanmadradubh
    Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭Seanmadradubh


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964170#Comment_120964170

    There seems to be quite a few people around who don't understand just how good we have it here, and how lucky they really are.

    Is it perfect? No. Could it be better? Yes. But at the present time the majority of the people living on this little island of ours are living, peacefull, longer, healthier, and more afluent lives than at any time in the entire history of humanity here.



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    #95254
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,457 ✭✭✭jmreire


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120962059#Comment_120962059

    And Putin is subservient to the Silovicki, his friends from the FSB / KGB days. But so far he's protected because its in the best interests of the Silovicki that he remain alive. When that changes, he will be "dismissed". So presently his biggest threat is the old man with the scythe.



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    #95255
    RoyalCelt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1689921683426070528?s=19


    near Roboytne. As you can see Russia isn't just sitting behind defensive lines waiting for the Ukrainians. They're attacking the Ukrainians hence all this destroyed Russia armour in the open.

    I said it before it's like 2 boxers meeting in the middle of the ring and slogging it out. This is good for Ukraine as Russia will be depleted faster but the downside is it will be very slow progress who have to fight for every inch gained.



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    #95256
    Become Death
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭Become Death


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964232#Comment_120964232

    Nope.

    I've explained it to the person who I originally responded to.

    I am not equivocating a comedian being "cancelled" to someone being thrown into a gulag. You would want to be an idiot to think I was.

    I was just saying that using fear, intimidation and coercion to silence dissenters is extremely commonplace in every society. Obviously the severity and outcomes are drastically different in places like Russia and North Korea. I have already said that.



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    #95257
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,353 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964335#Comment_120964335

    That's like saying a tap on the shoulder is similar to a punch in the face cos they both involve a hand. Yeah they're broadly similar in terms of vague methodology, but only at a very specific, very abstracted scale - one that doesn't really track in any real terms by way of comparing social admonishment and institutionalised coercion. You say they're similar, I don't think they're remotely similar and trivialises the latter while overstating the former.



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    #95258
    Become Death
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭Become Death


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964395#Comment_120964395

    If that is what you have taken from what I have said, then I can't, and have no desire, to convince you otherwise.

    I'm confident that it was clear to most what I was saying and I stand by my (admittedly) throw away comment and am happy to leave it there.



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    #95259
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,213 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    For those arguing that it's on the Russian population to stop the war through protests or a general uprising, about 6 months I shared your opinion and posted as much in this very thread. Like yourselves, I had grossly underestimated just how beaten down the average Russian is.

    One of the things that changed my view was this documentary series:

    Russia 1985–1999: TraumaZone: What It Felt Like to Live Through The Collapse of Communism and Democracy

    It's a seven part BBC documentary by Adam Curtis made up of unused archive footage that the BBC's Moscow bureau shot for the BBC News desk at the time. It's utterly stunning film-making IMO and a real insight into what's lived history for most Russians over the age of 30.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSjQL8MYniTTLA3wnZ25U-s6RgR4uJNvL



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    #95260
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 29,485 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964335#Comment_120964335

    This is an utterly false comparison.

    A comedian being cancelled is not coercion. You continue to double down with false analogies.

    It's not just the severity of the outcomes, it is the actual tactics. You don't seem to understand the words you are using like coercion, tactics or are engaging deliberately in double speak.

    You are drawing a false both sides equivalence that is entirely without merit or foundation, that is entirely false on multiple levels to what goes on in Russia or North Korea.

    You have had multiple attempts to 'convince' people what you were trying to say, and all you are doing is convincing people your claims are false.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #95261
    Become Death
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭Become Death


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964451#Comment_120964451

    Sigh.

    I said I am NOT comparing a comedian being cancelled...

    By severity I also meant the methods used, I thought that was obvious.

    I was simply saying that coercion, fear and intimidation are used by practically every government/society to keep people in line.

    I was not saying that all are equal in their methods, outcomes or tactics.

    I understand the words I used and no, I am not engaging in "double speak". I was responding to a poster in a throwaway manner who I have already clarified my position with.

    Lets leave it there.



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    #95262
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,930 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964492#Comment_120964492

    I was simply saying that coercion, fear and intimidation are used by practically every government/society to keep people in line.

    Okay, I don't see any evidence of the Irish government systematically doing this to "keep people" in line, certainly not in the way you are suggesting. So it sounds like a baseless personal opinion.

    The Russian regime is very different, and does use these tactics on a systematic basis to silence opposition, the press, to curb freedoms and so on.



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    #95263
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,353 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964421#Comment_120964421
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964492#Comment_120964492

    But this is the bit that I'm confused by:

    I was simply saying that coercion, fear and intimidation are used by practically every government/society to keep people in line.

    Well you also spoke of "...people admonishing you, disowning you, discrediting you or your lifes work or insulting you" - so which is it? TBH you can at least appreciate why your position is a big hard to grasp cos it basically encompasses everything while being a very broad comment. Are you talking about governments coercing citizens, or the social consensus?

    You say it's a throwaway comment, that's fine, but it has been unclear what angle you're coming from in terms of a non-Russian perspective.



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    #95264
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 29,485 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964492#Comment_120964492

    You actually specifically said:

    "While these outcomes pale in comparison to what happens in Russia or North Korea etc, it's still indicative of similar tactics being used."

    Now you contradict yourself by saying : 

    "I was not saying that all are equal in their methods, outcomes or tactics."

    But you did say it.

    Your words could be interpreted as attempting to draw a false moral and political equivalence between what is happening in Russia and what happens in democratic countries with constitutional liberties. Multiple posters picked up on that.

    So if you do understand the words, maybe reflect on that before drawing such equivalences. There are often posts on this thread pushing Russian propaganda, some of it very obvious, some of it insidious. 

    Earlier you said "You would want to be an idiot to think I was."

    Well, you should have seen some of the earlier propaganda being peddled on this thread to realise why on this thread that doesn't carry as much weight as you might think.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #95265
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,457 ✭✭✭jmreire


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964448#Comment_120964448

    Yes it is, and shows just how the criminals took over the state. Even Yeltsin was unable to control them, and they laughed at him when he called a meeting with them asking them to contribute some of their cash ( robbed from the state) for the upkeep of the state. Then Putin arrived, but he used a different approach. He arrested the biggest Oligarch of them all, Khodorkovsky. Put him on trial in public, and gave him a hefty jail sentence. After that, he called another meeting with the oligarchs' and informed them of the new rules. Business as usual, but 50% directly paid to him, Putin. ( I'm not quite sure what the exact % he extracted, TBH) Or else, a long stay in Lefortovo Prison. Needless to say, they paid up. To this day, many Russians follow him because they see him as the savior from much worse. But at heart, Putin is a criminal, and he's been proving it since his election, which was in itself a blood stained affair. And his and his fellow criminals continued theft from Russia, has meant that ordinary Russians struggle to live in a police state.



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    #95266
    Become Death
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭Become Death


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964541#Comment_120964541
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964537#Comment_120964537

    What I meant was that every country/society attempts to silence opposing voices using fear/coercion/intimidation. This is the "tactic" I was referring to that was similar.

    I didn't mean that they all used the same methods to do so, or used the same severity to achieve their goal of keeping the dissident people in line. some are somewhat benign and some are, as we've seen, horrific. I was not drawing any equivalence in the severity, the barbarity or the righteousness.

    I can't make it clearer than that



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    #95267
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,669 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Looks like Kupiansk is about to fall to the Russians. Mandatory evacuations have been ordered by the Ukranian authorities.

    https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-urges-evacuations-russia-claims-170651131.html




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    #95268
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,930 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Ruble continuing to slide, normally there's a pull-back but it's still going. 98.4 to the USD today. One of the main state TV propagandists losing his mind over it.



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    #95269
    strathspey
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭strathspey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964826#Comment_120964826

    And this is after their central bank intervened to prop up the rubble, I mean ruble.

    https://www.reuters.com/markets/currencies/rouble-hits-over-16-month-low-under-fx-demand-pressure-2023-08-09/



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    #95270
    strathspey
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭strathspey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964775#Comment_120964775

    I can't help but think that you say that with glee. How about posting 'Robotyne falls to Ukraine' in the same breath.

    https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-new-08-11-23/index.html



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    #95271
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,291 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964775#Comment_120964775

    They're getting civilians out because they will get caught in the cross fire and know the Russian's will target them. It's not about to fall, the Ukrainians are preparing for a fight there.

    Untitled Image




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    #95272
    Virgil°
    Registered Users Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964775#Comment_120964775

    While there does seem to be Russian attacks mounting in the area and civilian evacuations.

    Kupiansk "about to fall" is your opinion and absolutely nothing more. Wagner took 9 months and 10s of thousands of deaths to take Bakhmut. And the Russians still have to pass several settlements and natural river barriers to even reach the outskirts of Kupiansk. So no. It is not about to fall.



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    #95273
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,743 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963363#Comment_120963363


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963898#Comment_120963898

    Maybe the Russians abroad who are against the war have family back home. Would you speak out in that scenario knowing your family could be harmed? I have no doubt there are Russians who support the war as they are hoodwinked by the Kremlin propaganda. Just as there are some Americans Citizens who always support their own wars. Yet as we see in America there are plenty who have spoken out against wars such as Vietnam and Iraq. The difference as we all know is, that what whatever faults America has, you have the freedom to dissent. With this in mind, the Russian equivalent of Chomsky would be lucky to see his 60th birthday, unlike Noam who is 90 plus

    Post edited by nacho libre on


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    #95274
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,148 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964775#Comment_120964775

    Doesn't surprise me. The Russians have adapted. Beyond incompetent in the early days and not so early days, but now they're dug in like ticks, with lines of defences like mines which need few people to work, getting supplies from China like drones and western support isn't coming nearly quick enough or in enough numbers. There's not a lot of movement on the front lines and neither are making much by way of gains, but I fear if western support doesn't increase it's more likely Ukraine's front will collapse than Russia's(in spots anyway). It's Ukraine's defence that has a lot less depth.

    as John Sweeney, a man with zero time for Russia and even less for putin noted today:

    https://twitter.com/johnsweeneyroar/status/1689911186794405888

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #95275
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,669 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964925#Comment_120964925

    Not glee. Just reporting what is verifiable mostly from social media. If Ukraine had a serious breakthrough I'd be saying it. They've not had any breakthrough in months so there is not much to say.



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    #95276
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,669 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965009#Comment_120965009

    Agree but I think the situation is even more grim than that to be honest. Ukraine just doesn't have the resources, either manpower or equipment, to match the expectations many seem to have. It's playing out as I expected. They can defend but unable to breakthrough any Russian defensive lines. They need a lot more from the west.



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    #95277
    Virgil°
    Registered Users Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965054#Comment_120965054

    But you're happy to post that Kupiansk is about to fall despite there being absolutely nothing verified from social media about it and Russia not even close to the outskirts of the place? Right. So unbiased. 🙄



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    #95278
    TedBundysDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭TedBundysDriver


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965009#Comment_120965009

    Posters get called Russiabots etc.. in here for suggesting more or less the same. It's like an alternative reality at times where unless you pretend everything is rosy for Ukraine you must be hoping for their defeat. It's absolute nonsense.



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    #95279
    Heraclius
    Registered Users Posts: 744 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965101#Comment_120965101

    I think it is more that it is obvious that certain posters only post negative news about Ukraine and positive news for Russia.



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    #95280
    denismc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭denismc


    Interesting graphic from Visual capitalist showing the decline in the Russian economy this year.

    OC_World-Economy-2023_Supp.jpg




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    #95281
    TedBundysDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭TedBundysDriver


    On the front it's pretty much become a frozen conflict. Without massive air support i dont see what Ukraine are supposed to do Urozhaine was supposed to have 'fallen' 2 weeks ago. It's a tiny village. Still fighting there. Robotyne has been contested for nearly 2 months. Still not done. Horrific losses there for Ukraine. They are trying to go at huge minefields and defence lines with no air.

    Apparently Russian artillery losses are huge, but we've been hearing that for 18 months now.

    Unless NATO is really committed to actually winning this then it's not going anywhere. It's turned into the Somme, well it did that a while ago.They need enormous amounts of air support and mine clearers and the west is too busy pretending they care instead of actually caring. Why is there no M1150 for example?

    I'll get sh it for this and called a vatnik probably, but it's obviously a frozen front line right now.

    Too many mines and mobiks in trenches. Plus KA-52 mostly operating unhindered, although we do get them a bit.



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