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Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 - Read OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    We don't know the full context of what actually happened here at all.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It is, because the legislation is more or less the same; seeking to accommodate and pander to the same weak people in society who obsess about reporting anyone to law enforcement because their feelings are hurt.

    Wrong, again.

    The mother in the video stated the reasons why, and law enforcement didn't disagree with her version of events. They actually agreed with it, saying that the daughter had to be arrested regardless. They stated the allegation was "homophobia" based on the daughter's reference to the police officer looking similar to her lesbian grandmother.

    Do you believe people should be arrested for saying a person looks like their lesbian grandmother?

    Because if you do, that is alarming to say the very least.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    No, I'd say the person was arrested because police believe she abused them.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Quite amazing how some people will flip the unjustifiable into an almost Goebbellian context that very conveniently suits their narrative.

    Let's take a step back for a second. You're attempting to justify what happened to that special needs child.

    What happened to that child was bullying and psychological abuse, period.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Can you give me some evidence of the legislation being the same. I think you are making that up to be honest. But maybe you have some information from a reliable source?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    We have the Mother's version. That is not full context. It is merely what the Mother says. There may be much more context the police have not disclosed.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No, we have the mother talking with the police officers about the situation at the time. Neither contradicted one another.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Means nothing

    Do you think police officers should take abuse from people?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Unbelievable.

    The child was arrested by Yorkshire Police for "hate speech", detained for 20 hours at the station, and then subsequently released.

    The police officer, halfway through the video, confirms that it was due to a "homophobic" remark.

    No amount of disingenuous arguing on your behalf can falsify the facts. Keep pushing the falsehood that there was some other sinister conspiracy at play. It won't fool anyone.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    It is, because the legislation is more or less the same; seeking to accommodate and pander to the same weak people in society who obsess about reporting anyone to law enforcement because their feelings are hurt.


    It would be just as easy to characterise people complaining about the proposed legislation in Ireland as weak people in society complaining because their feelings are hurt, obsessing about being reported and expecting they should be accommodated. I wouldn’t expect law enforcement to pander to those people who are seeking accommodation, ie - special protection from prosecution when they commit an offence.

    The same laws apply to everyone equally.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I came across this tweet just now, and it sums up the scandal well.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    The fact that someone could be brought into a police station and held there for a significant period of time because of something they said that might have offended a police officer is quite sinister.It's akin to something the Satsi would have done .

    There were 6 or 7 police officer used to apprehend that a girl in Leeds for saying something.Is Leeds such a crime free Utopia that there aren't more serious things for the police there to be dealing with?

    A sensible police officer would have just let that comment (whether intentionally offensive or otherwise) roll off them and move on, the fact that her colleagues actually went along with her and didn't just tell her to cop herself on and drop the issue is even worse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Its ok for police to be abused and assaulted? Is that what you're saying?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    What is a crime free utopia?

    And you don't know what happened before that arrest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Saying someone looks like a lesbian is not abuse.Unless you consider being a lesbian a horrible thing?

    The police were not assaulted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,330 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Where was the assault?

    If someone takes offense to being called a lesbian then they must deem being a lesbian to be a bad thing - which to me reeks of homophobia. It's like being back in the playground and someone calls you "gay" (at which point you complain to a teacher and the teacher just tells you to grow the **** up - and correctly so).

    And you can deal with a situation of being called a name or verbally abused without needing to detain them or twenty hours - do they not teach conflict descalation to police officers any more?

    All of this is irrelevant because the police officer is question just wanted to be awkward - they were never threatened and they probably weren't even offended. Now at this point we've gone off topic and ar talking about crappy police work and not the Criminal Justice Bill.

    Post edited by Princess Consuela Bananahammock on

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,780 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    What disgusting behaviour carried out on a teenager with special needs.

    I am shocked but not surprised by the people who are downplaying the behaviour of the police.

    Let's hope this is not something we see over here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,330 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,780 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Where else are officers allowed arrest teenagers for calling someone a lesbian?

    Even it is allowed elsewhere its absolutely ridiculous and I can't see how anyone could try downplay it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,330 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Not my point - my point is that police are just as likely to overreact anywhere

    Theres no way that sending seven police officers to detain one teenager for nearly 24 hours because of one incident of name-calling is a direcy and proportionate reaction.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭TokTik


    Is saying someone looks like someone else abuse? Why would the police officer take such offence at being told she looked like a lesbian that the autistic girl knows? Is the officer homophobic in that she sees lesbian as a terrible slur? What is wrong with lesbians?


    If I tell a gay police officer in the U.K. that he looks like David Beckham/Tom Hardy/Brad Pitt will I be arrested for “homophobia”??



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    I have no idea what was wrong with that officer, she took offence at what the girl was saying, she probably said other things too, but that's the one that the officer used to arrest her.

    I don't believe she was right, she's clearly a bit sensitive for her job. And I'm sure she is going to regret it. The point I was trying to make, is that, if she didn't arrest her for this, she would have found something else to arrest her for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    They should release the bodycam video but I somehow doubt it will exonerate the police. They should have had a bit of copon (no pun intended) but as the teen was driven home for being drunk I suspect she may have been abusing them throughout the drive home and this comment was the excuse they thought they needed to arrest her.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's not the way it works.

    Either the special needs child committed a hate speech offense or she didn't. That's what she was arrested for. Not for being drunk and disorderly and abusive, but for hate speech.

    That alone was the arrest justification.

    And it's wholly indefensible.

    What we're now seeing among some posters is a pretty transparent attempt to crowbar non-existent facts into the story, such as your invented and quite frankly irrelevant claim that something went on in the car.

    We've no evidence of that and even if it were true, it says nothing about the actual reason of why she was actually arrested.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,330 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    I agree, but it's still the police reaction that's the fault, not the actual law. The police wete there to nake a point, not uphold a law

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    Yes. It's their job - illegitimate though their job is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    If, as certain posters like to claim, the political establishment is so out of touch with the common folk, how is it they keep getting reelected and alternatives on the populist right such as Justin Barretts crowd get nowhere?

    I speak as someone who thinks there is no real need for this legislation and the existing legislation around incitement to hatred is already adequate, though not being enforced in relation to the internet.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,780 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    You never need context in other threads.

    Or does a teenager with special needs not make it on your list of people who should be protected?



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