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Heavyweight Boxing

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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,756 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Iv said it for years & years on here Wilder will brutally stop AJ,

    AJ is far to afraid of being hit , as Fury said your going to get hit you just have to accept that & deal with it,

    AJ will be in such a panic about it he wont fight his own fight & Wilder will nail him ,



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭alan partridge aha


    Wilder can take an awful lot of punishment especially in the 3rd fight with Fury.

    Don't think AJ would have lasted 11 rounds against the onslaught of Fury.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,778 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    The change in Joshua since the first Ruiz fight is incredible. The rematch was terrible, he just relied on his reach. And he's never changed since, very, very afraid of being hit, whereas once he was very exciting to watch, had serious power and was very keen to attack. He still has the physical attributes but unless he can somehow restore the attitude he once had he'll never reach anything like the same heights.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,649 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    This was discussed before. Had Fury more power, and cleaner and more efficient follow ups, Wilder is out there far earlier. Plenty proper power hitters with better finishing ability would not have allowed Wilder survive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭alan partridge aha


    Hopefully with get to find that out, just don't see current AJ beating Wilder.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    You rarely enough see Joshua throwing a heavy clean shot. He only threw hard when Helenius was beyond tired and look, he was never much of a boxer. I think Wilder throws heavier and much quicker for a one punch shot. If Helenius can get through enough to puff Joshua’s eyes up then Wilder gets a bomb off. It wouldn’t shock me if both hit the deck but I think it’s a 70-30 fight for Wilder



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Wilder is vulnerable against a boxer. Ortiz had him wobbling and in the second fight was all over him too but that showed too that Wilder changes fights in an instant. Fury was very lucky himself in the third fight on two counts. 1 Wilder did hurt him and the bell are at a good time 2 the referee allowed him to bend the crap out of the rules, a ref who insisted on distance and Fury loses some advantages. Now maybe hed still have won and he was oceans better a fighter on all three nights but Wilder was more than just in it.

    As well as that, ever since Fury has taken some real easy options for him rather than big hitters. Wilder shook him too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,649 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Well, the fact that I believe both are chinny and both can end it with a clean solid power shot leaves me at a 50/50 shootout.

    Yes, folks point to AJ of the last few years being more careful and cautious, but Wilder is also very careful at times, and reluctant to extend himself. AJ has to know it's kill or be killed, and knowing this, he will surely not be "hanging around" hoping to avoid Wilder and win via his own 'later rds' KO, or by points.

    We could see both being very wary and cautious and passive. It could be a case of the neater and cleaner and more tidy hitter winning, as opposed to the more aggressive and committed. I have a feeling that IF Wilder is more aggressive, that this could be his downfall; a waiting and counter-punching AJ gets to tag him hard to end it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,920 ✭✭✭bmc58


    Wilder will destroy Joshua.Then a re match with Fury is on the cards..then who knows.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Only one of them has given up and thats big for mentality. Only one of them has gone gunshy. Yes Wilder has looked poor in fights and then devastating with one bang.

    I dunno if Ive known Wilder to be careful he certainly wasnt against Fury. 3rd fight he was tentative in the first 2 rounds jabbing to the body and that gave Fury the encouragement to pour it on.

    Wilder is usually quite patient and when he sees the opening can let fly from across the ring. I can’t recall Joshua ever showing much counter punching ability. I think his best chance is to keep it very close and work combinations



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    One step at a time! Not sure I see a 4th fight happening I could see him get Usyk though



  • Posts: 13,688 Manuel Warm Giant


    Unbelievable that the Ruiz defeat was four years ago and Joshua still hasn't recovered from it.

    Four years and half a dozen fights later and it's still in his head.

    I think Wilder flatlines him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,649 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    By counter I was thinking more Wilder missing, falling in and walking onto a heavy shot.

    tentative/careful is apt enough to describe Wilder, at times.

    anyway, if they meet, AJ has to be committed, confident, assured and ready to fire heavy. I reckon “for one last hurrah” he might give it a proper go.



  • Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭reclose


    You’d have to favour Wilder over current Joshua. I think AJ will fold if someone pressures him enough. He won’t engage.


    I doubt he gets stopped on the first knockdown though, he seems to be able to get back up when dropped albeit gassed and dazed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Maybe. The Joshua uppercut and hook could be weapons. I think Wilder will be patient and back his jab. He can come in over the top with the big right hand but he wont be shy about throwing medium power shots either and they would trouble Joshua.

    Wilder was slow to get going with Fury and he often bides his time like with Ortiz or Spilka but when he sees it he goes for it big time.

    That’s agreed, neither man can go with the aim of points or even really think about latter rounds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,334 ✭✭✭OmegaGene


    I will be interested to see if wilder has anything left, he’s done nothing since he vanished for a year into the mountains on a magic mushroom holiday after fury 3

    he came back to unveil a statue of himself and was filmed talking to the statue lol


    be good to see a good scrap, wilder was giving his all against fury so I can’t see him being worried about Aj - fingers crossed it’s a good fight if it happens

    The internet isn’t for everyone



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,649 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Wilder was absolute knackered after 3-4 rds v Fury in their 3rd fight..



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    That’s a bit like saying Joshua was absolutely knackered after 5 rounds v Wlad. Both weathered significant storms and contributed a lot to the two fights albeit differing outcomes



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,942 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    No. Wilder indeed hung on in there through sheer heart and determination which was great to see from him but truthfully he offered the some total of f*"k all in the latter rds of fight 3 up until he was eventually stopped.

    Joshua weathered a storm and then went to the metaphorical well, dug deep and went on to win his fight in spectacular fashion. The two scenarios are incomparable.

    Despite that though Joshua has never been able to replicate such a feat since. iirc he even said after that Wlad fight that he never wants to experience something like that again. Which in hindsight was a big red flag with regards to his career thereafter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,389 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Wilder fought Helenius before and put him to sleep in the first round.

    He'll have Joshua finished inside three.

    That fight will never happen though unless Hearn thinks there no money to be made fighting bums.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 55,649 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    As selectamatic said, scenarios not comparable. Wilder was finished after 4 rds and was pure draining right till end. Did well to last 11, but Fury’s poor finishing ability lent to that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,349 ✭✭✭✭blade1


    And remember Wilder's ringwalk costume wore him out as well 🤪



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Have a look again lads I think it was the end of Round 9 or 10 Wilder had Fury hurt again. They were up against very different opponents while Wlad was tentative and gun shy, allowing Joshua to recover Fury was mauling and draining Wilder fair or foul. Any pressure on Joshua and he was gone too. So those scenarios are comparable surely. Fury was smart, the risk was lower if he kept control, ironically he nearly got caught himself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,055 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    im still not sure how good wilder is, he went up in my estimation in the fury fights but maybe i am overrating fury, to me he destroys this version of Joshua, Joshua pre Ruiz is a different story but i think wilder will find him early to be honest, far too tentative.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,649 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I agree as regards the big lump Fury mauling and doing whatever else to Wilder, which would have been very tiring for the far lighter Wilder.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,649 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I think AJ could get in cleaner and as early here, should he put real commitment on the shots. Get right through to Wilder’s chin early to end it.

    in a funny way, the careful and cautious AJ may well see him defend a bit better, and then boom, he connects clean and hard



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    If he goes in careful and cautious then I think he gets eaten alive. If it’s a race for a big shot then my money is on Wilder too. He needs to take the fight to Wilder and make it tough on the inside. Be neater and cleaner trying to smother Wilder’s work. I still think Wilder gets to him



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,756 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    I just can't see this, AJ will get smoked in 5 rounds ,

    He is afraid to engage & gets hit by everyone he faces, Wilder will crack him once he open's up & good night,

    AJ knocking out Helenius means nothing ,Gerald Washington has only won 2 fights in his last 8 & one of those was knocking out Helenius

    AJ doesn't knock live fighters out anymore, Helenius & Pulev since what 2018 ? Helenius is brutal & Pulev got beat by Del boy

    Wilder threw 3 punches & flat lined Helenius,

    Wilder will destroy this version of AJ ,

    I don't see Hearn making this fight ,



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,649 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Yes. But AJ can also get to Wilder. We’re really just debating one, maybe two big heavy shots (that both can deliver).

    I don’t know: maybe the more assured and relaxed and aggresive AJ from years ago could be less effective (due to being less careful and less fearful) than this more methodical and careful one?

    yoy can be very careful/cautious, while also very focused and capable of split second detonations..



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  • Registered Users Posts: 55,649 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I wouldn’t think it goes to 5..

    the Wilder win over Helenius and AJ win have 0 bearing on AJ v Wilder. Both simply knocked him out with their one shot power. One just took longer to land it.

    Wilder is just a boxer with power. Helenius a boxer with less power. Far too much being made of scenarios.

    AJ connects clean and hard he wins. Same for Wilder. I wouldn’t be backing Wilder too heavily here. AJ can whack, and can deliver a serious whack on a lighter Wilder to end it.



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