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1967 VW Variant.

191012141519

Comments

  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Next task was to fab up a template for the cover panel over the heating duct tube before the outer cill is welded in. because there is an outer cill, some repairers leave out the secondary panel. I wont as it was an original VW part and was always there.

    First job is to make a pattern that fits over the tube, and has room inside the outer cill.

    Simple method of determining the width of the piece required is to shape the piece. Put a strip of masking tape on the profile, mark the lines to measure from, take off the strip and measure. Simples.




  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Once i had the template for the secondary outer cill I needed to check that it fitted around the heater tube, and also fitted inside the outer cill. Once that was done, it was onwards and upwards.



    Job done. Next thing is to make 2 panels one for each side.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 60,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gremlinertia


    That is some amazing fab work



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    That outer cill panel you see in the last picture is the only panel available to buy for this car. Its a pressed panel from a modern factory that makes only cill panels and nothing else, in europe. You cannot buy wings, doors, bulkhead panels , front clips , inner clips at all. Unless you are lucky enough to buy either NOS that comes up now and again, or a second hand stock of parts. Its a complete hit and miss affair..


    When i was doing the white fastback I had to make all my panel requirements, big and small . From the largest wing sections, to the front bottom clips as well. On this squareback I was lucky enough to source the 2 front clip panesl which saved me a lot of work. But then having to make the two front bulkhead panels set me back. And now having to make the complete heater channel sections, except the outer rocker cover, was something I didn't bargain for, but I'm working through it now. Any of the remaining panels towards the rear I have already made for the other car, so there wont be any more surprises for me. So I cant take any credit for making the outer pressed panel for this one, although I made them for the other because they were unavailable at the time.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Here is the same type heater channel I made for the fastback that I drive now.

    [img]https://i.imgur.com/Tp50XTw.jpg[/img]



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Heater channel I made for the last fastback that I drive.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    This is all too familiar territory for me thanks to my previous type 3 resto, been there done that as they say.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Flange bolts...well I remember them!!! But the "washers" would normally be OK to use, they are pretty heavy, and not really affected by rust. A good cleaning should be enough to restore them for use.

    Fantastic job Kadman, fair play to you!!. And a small suggestion from me. looking at all the presently exposed metalwork , which will be boxed in. I'm not sure what's available currently in the line of rustproofing ( I'm sure that there's some pretty good stuff out there) But the gear I used was a pressure pot filled with a sprayable wax mix, and a long narrow flexible tube fitted, that had a brass head on its end. This end worked just like the head you get on a drain jetter, but it was drilled differently, so that instead of forcing the water out backwards as in the drain model, it forced jets of wax out in every direction. If you drilled a small hole (1/4") in the top of a 20 ltr drum, inserted the sprayer and squeezed the trigger for a few seconds it would completely cover every sq" with a good layer of wax. Just a suggestion from me, but I'm pretty sure that any one who is so thorough and methodical will have this covered as well.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Ha, ha. Thats already been done, those pictures are from the Fastback I am currently driving, this car,


    Less the wheelie bin😁


    Galvanised channels in this one as well, but the outer rockers were mild steel, but I used a bilt hamber product, the name escapes me at the moment. So its well protected, and will get constant maintainence to make sure its good.


    All under the front end and bulkheads I used 2 coats of phosphate primer, 2 red oxide and 4 gravitex stone chip. So thats a good un.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Finally got the inner cill cover made. And after a few checks to make sure there was sufficient clearance between all the components, I checked and double checked again.


    Trial fitting the piece onto the heater channel for clearence

    Then it was fitted into the external cill to make sure that it was ok.

    Then it had to be checked to make sure that the pan fitting bolts did not stop the heater ducting from fitting the channel.

    And i had to make sure that the components would have enough freedom from the heater ducting.

    And now we are nearly ready to weld in the heater tabs on the tube, the end socket on the tube. And then weld it in .All went well so thats a good day. I might have enough gas to weld on the tabs but then will have to get a re fill.



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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    I would like to rotate one or two of the pics but I,m not sure on that so will leave well alone😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭jmreire


    I've heard of the Bilt Hamber anti corrosion treatment, and you injected it into to the sill cavities? that's a sound job for sure. That Fastback looks very good, and the inside is as well I'd say, great job! The estate version of these VW's were great favorite's of the Vets in my part of the Country ( probably he same all over Ireland )😎



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭jmreire


    When you have it finished and are sitting back and enjoying it, maybe you will sort through all the pics, and make a nice pictorial "story", with explanatory text on the the different stages of the restoration? It would be very interesting for people who like restore and preserve old cars.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Nearly all the pics are on my imgur account, over 1000 of them. And some on a photobucket account too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Unfortunately, I don't have either, but maybe time to get an imgur account....😎



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,276 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    @kadman this thread is utterly inspiring. I'm sure the car will likely never be worth what you've put into it, particularly were you to factor your time and expertise into the sums but it is wonderful to know there's people like you in the world that have the skill and desire to save these old beauties!

    Post edited by Sleepy on


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Thankyou for your kind sentiments.


    In pound shillings and pence the car will never be worth what I have put into it. But in other ways it will be well worth while in the memories involved in the car. Way back before I ever found out about it, and right up to this post of yours. Lots and lots of memories for me, you guys out there , and in particular Alpha beta who sold it to me. He asked me to post up any resto as the story to follow his great thread. And i promised to do that, and thats why we are here.


    Its lovely to know that other folks are getting something out of this as much as i am. But there were a few times when i was challenged with the car, and questioned my sanity😁 But never at any time was I seriously going to throw in the towel, but I did swear a bit alright🤣 And its great to see all you folks sticking with it too. Thanks for the encouragement.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 60,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gremlinertia


    Never miss a post, it's such a labour of love, and discussing the proper (to my mind) mechanics of engines and other fettling just makes me smile at every turn



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,175 ✭✭✭Jeff2


    This one.?




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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    I assume you want me to clarify that for you, thats no problem. If you look down below the tube along the bottom of the square section, you will see a horizontal threaded pointed bolt. This bolt actually comes up from the bottom of the floor pan, and towards the heater duct pipe. That view is just to assure me that I have clearance to clear the pipe if i install it in the square section at that point. And I do thankfully.

    If I install the tube too close to the square section, then I risk hitting the pipe with the floor pan bolt up through the bottom



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Here is a better pic of the floor pan bolt and clearance from the tube





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭jmreire


    You were right to avoid taking the shortcut of not replacing secondary panel . Its part of the overall strength of the sill section. Anything that the Germans put in, is there for a reason., Going very well now.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Today I had to make a cover plate for the 90 degree turn at the end of the heater tube, upwards towards the screen defroster. This is normally left out on some restorations as the outer cill panel covers it anyway. But the problem is that because the heater tube terminates in an open arrangement, I believe you lose some pressure from the heat going to the windscreen. Ideally the turn in direction wants be as close a fit as possible to maintain a good flow to the windscreen.

    The type 3 vw's have a far superior windscreen defrost ability than the normal beetle. You wont ever be complaining about type 3 heat ability unless your system is in poor order.

    Here you can see the heater flap in the vertical position that allows heat to the floor footwell, as well as opening the pathway to the windscreen defrost.


    Here you can see the flap fully open to the floor footwell, and closed to the pathway up the door post trunking to the screen.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Check at least twice, or pay the price !!!😶



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,175 ✭✭✭Jeff2


    Old sayings are worth listening to.

    Same as yours. "measure twice cut once".



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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Toooooo true. I always choose the softly softly approach now. I have all the time in the world, and doing a task once slowly and carefully is time well spent.😉



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭jmreire


    You are right about the Variant having better screen heating than the beetle. That section you are at now is tricky enough though. You probably don't need it but Good Luck with it anyway !!! . 😊.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    I am pretty sure its needed for a couple of reasons. First one being that it seals the heater duct going into the upper duct of the windscreen defroster. If it wasn't there, then any blowby out out the heater duct could by pass out of the end of the tube, and back down along the inside of the outer cill panel. So I would prefer all the heater force only having the option of the foot well or the doorpost defrost duct, and no where else.


    Its a small panel, so it wont be that difficult. And I am waiting on advice on the correct half mask to use when welding galvanized due to the toxicity of the fumes. But I am into the second day now, and no word back. I am sometimes amazed when you get connected to a tech guy or gal online with a simple question, and they have to go off and ask someone else..........and get back to you by e mail, maybe.

    I am a bit too long in the tooth to be fekking about with toxic galvanize fumes. Although there are loads of guys out there welding it with no mask.So if ye know, let me know, thanks.

    Post edited by kadman on


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Now that I have the end heater socket fabbed enough for final trimming before I weld. I will prpe all the parts for seam welding, or spot welding with holes where they need to be. I am still waiting for a call back from some safety chaps about the best mask for galvanised metal fumes, but nothing yet. So maybe no welding today until i get that.


    I also will apply some rust protector to any existing metal that I have access to before I start welding. And in the rust areas I cant get access to I will apply Convert Ox convertor to protect against ongoing rust. It converts any rust to a polymer based coating that prevents further rust.Werk34 in Germany is one of the only companies that supply any parts for type 3 vw's like this one.....when they get their hands on NOS. Expensive, but they dont make parts any more except for one or two. The cills thankfully




  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    So I drilled and prepped the parts for installation. I secured in the rubber seal below the channel, and placed that in temporarily to put pressure on the seal until it cures in 48 hours. I used Tek 7 for that.

    Then i copper greased the floor pan bolts and plates to facilitate the removal of the body, if thats ever required in the future....but not by me😁. Then i marked and drilled the outer inside cill panel for plug welds that will secure it to the inner heater channel.

    Thats me done for today. Next Monday its getting the correct mask, and welding in this channel. After that its move on down the drivers side to the rear bumper mounts, and replacing any rusty metal on the way there. Progress might pick up a bit now, as the panels are less trickier,.....I hope.

    Here you can see the bolts copper greased to preserve them. Once all the plug welding is done ,, I will be able to deal with the preservation of the inside of the heater channel.

    Problem with the rotation again, but I cant seem to fix it.😁



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,175 ✭✭✭Jeff2


    The problem with rotation of the pictures is a problem of this site I think. It happens in many threads.

    Any pictures I see sideways that I want to see better I download and rotate myself.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭jmreire


    In the absence of a specific welding mask, I'd use a spraying ask, one with cartridge type filter, and a fan pushing the fumes away from my face. You will be using a MIG welder? Clean off the edges where it will be welded with a grinder? Less galvanize fumes that way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Yeah, that's nice. Also there's a weldable anti rust primer that you can use when spot welding, have you used it before?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭jmreire




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,175 ✭✭✭Jeff2


    Pictures on this site sometimes randomly get posted sideways.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    The pictures that are rotated wrongly only happens when I post them here, for some pictures that I rotate the camera for. When i load them to my pc...perfect. When I select them from my pc to post here, they rotate.


    Agh...to hell with it, I have enough dealing with rust, so you have to lay down on the floor to view them. Quit belly aching😂🤣🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Oh, I thought you meant part of the sill panel......laying down is not a problem, but getting back up is !!! I just turn the laptop sideways.....😂



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman




  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 77,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    If you take a screenshot of the pics on your phone and post that, it'll post the right way up. You can crop the black bands out of the screenshot before you save it, if you need to.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    I managed to weld in the inner heat channel section, as well as the heater duct and location tabs for the duct as well

    Door post B fixing point after welding in , just needs to be ground down. Spatter was not too bad considering it was galvanised metal. And the x on the tube shows the location of the tab to be welded in to hold the tube in position.


    The tube end that goes into the door post A shows a better view of the tab indent so that it does not build up to too many thicknesses over all.


    Here are the spot welds towards the rear of the car heater channel end. On inspection inside the car they appear to have good penetration into the inner metal panel.

    Here is the inner panel behind the drivers seat on the floor. You can see the heater duct tube, and above the box formed heater channel you can see the top section of the old heater channel that will be welded to the top of the new one.


    Here you can see the 3 tabs spotted onto the top of the heater duct tube and welded into the indents on the inner channel section, to minimize the build up of thicknesses.


    And here you can see the plug welds at the rear end of the heater channel which will also be welded on the top face of the top of the box section behind the drivers seat.

    Plan tomorrow is to finish welding in the inner channel section, plug weld on the inner/out cill section as well as the 90 degree piece, and then finally the outer cill.But I suspect that the gas will run out before then.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭jmreire


    They're all a nice snug fit. Did you manage to locate a welding mask?



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    I did indeed. I finally got a tip from a bus restorer who told me what he uses. I checked out his advice along with a few other tips, and I actually got the correct specced mask from screwfix. So it was in and collect one, and on with the welding.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    I maged to get the secondary external cill welded in , until I finally ran out of gas when I was welding in the outer cill. So I will have to go for a bottle of gas tomorrow, and finish of the cill welding. I also fabbed an endcap to the cill at the A post, and I need to finish of the rear end of the outer cill section under the rear wing.


    Here we have the secondary cill that covers the heater tube, plug welded in and given a coat of weld primer so that the external cill can be welded onto it.

    Here is the external cill primed and painted with hammerite oxide internally to protect it, and drilled for the plug welds.

    And here is the outer cill partially welded in before i ran out of gas.

    And here is the partially fabbed endpiece that runs down to a taper at the end of the heater channel section, and is covered by the rear wing. Thats it until I gas up again and finish what I have so far.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭jmreire


    That's a fine job now. And the MIG welds will be fine after a rub of the grinder. For your info, back in the day when I was in the business, we had a very nice hand held spot welder for that truly original look, especially when the bonnet was lifted, and the first place prospective buyers would look was where the top of the wing was welded to the valance. And I'm pretty sure now there are far more advanced spot welders on the market. I'm not criticizing the MIG welds ( God, knows I've done enough of them myself!!! ) and for sure, they will be more than strong enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,175 ✭✭✭Jeff2


    I love following this project and the updates. Some I understand and a small few I don't.

    But the use of copper grease on some bolts you will probably never be the person to unbolt them again shows the attention to detail you have.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Yes it does show attention to detail, and considering the benefits if you did have to open the bolts again, it's relatively simple thing to do. In the Beetle engine, when changing the plugs, a thin smear of copper grease on the plugs when replacing them often saved grief down the road. Most mechanics will have met the plugs in the VW engine ( especially but not limited to VW) that often brought some of the threads from the cylinder head with them on the way out. And then you had a problem that the copper slip would have prevented.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,175 ✭✭✭Jeff2


    I get you and don't mean to go off topic and pulled threads and you need to do helicoil is something I hate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Yes, I know, I've done them too, and hope that they will work OK. Otherwise, its an engine out / head off job. All because of a smear of copper slip was not applied. But as you said, off topic.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Thats a fair point. But there isn't any part of the wing thats welded to the valance?

    And any welding when the bonnets open is not viewable because there is an adhesive liener on the bodywork, together with a loose original liner. I am all for constructive criticism thats why I post up here, for exactly that.


    I would love a spot welder for cill and accessible panel work, but god they are expensive and it doesn't warrant the expense for my own cars. And i could never manage to come across a decent second hand one as they dont come up often. And the amount of accessible places so far in the ares I have been working on so far would be few for a spot welder.

    But I would love to see a few pics of the type you have used. Maybe I am searching for the wrong item.

    Prospective buyers and cars for sale..................you must be joking, no money would pay for this car, there is too much gone into it, and I like it to much to sell it, I want to drive it.


    Advice and criticism is more than welcome, Thats what we are here for, a learning process.



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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭kadman


    Its vw related so not off my topic😁 Not too bad if you get the good quality helicoils as there is some crap going around out there. I remember putting case savers into an engine I rebuilt a few years ago, that were impressive quality.

    They were so tough I used them to repair the threads in an iveco brake caliper, and I put tremendous pressure on them going in.

    hey JM have you still got any of the special vw tools that were used on their repairs for mechanical repairs like the suspension re alignment tool. Rare as hens teeth now



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