What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

15-08-2023 9:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979917#Comment_120979917

Trump may very well be found guilty. I still maintain that if this were some benign political figure, many of these charges would never have even surfaced to begin with. But given the charged political climate in the US, I think it's the height of irresponsibility for the US to pursue this vendetta against Trump in the midst of a democratic election campaign.

Whether pardoning is morally right is another question. Politically, it may very well be the most appropriate course of action.

looksee · 15-08-2023 9:40am

So if you object to 'obsessional grievances' can we find some way of stemming Trump's obsessional grievances - you know, all those lies and conspiracies he posts everyday to keep his base wound up?

In 'moving on' does this include allowing Trump to stand for the Presidency again? After all, if he has been pardoned it would indicate that he was guilty of all he is being charged with. Except, as you know perfectly well, he cannot be pardoned for State crimes.

Can you be a bit more specific about how all this would work? Who is going to pardon him? Biden? I'm not really seeing it.

randd1 · 15-08-2023 9:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979876#Comment_120979876

And plenty would also look for any co-incidence anywhere, no matter how small, in order to validate their conspiracy, when there's nothing there. And when you're part of a cult, like Trump's supporters, such coincidences (no matter how trivial, inane, insignificant or pointless) are a smoking gun.

If me and two other people in my place of work, who know nothing of each other other than to say hello as we pass each other in the building, had cheese sandwiches using the same brand of cheese on the same day twice a week, it doesn't mean we're part of a conspiracy where we're paid to promote a brand of cheese to push an anti-vegan agenda. We're just eating a feckin cheese sandwich for lunch.

Trump's supporters just can't seem to wrap their heads around that things that are not connected can happen at the same time, and not everything is a conspiracy. Unfortunately, when you've lost your mind and handed your basic thinking over to the cult of Trump, you have to do as the cult says. And in a paranoid cult like Trump's, there's conspiracies everywhere.

15-08-2023 9:42am

So basically Trump is thoroughly fucked.

If found guilty in Georgia he faces a mandatory minimum sentence of 5 years and cannot be pardoned by the governor (I don't think Kemp would be in much of a hurry to do so anyway)

Apparently Mark Meadows is squealing like a hog caught under a gate which is great news for prosecutors as the main hurdle with RICO is actually proving the existence of a criminal enterprise.

Trump really couldn't have picked a worse state haha. Had he done it in Arizona instead he'd probably get a slap on the wrist.

salmocab · 15-08-2023 9:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979933#Comment_120979933

You know suggesting that someone who tried to change the outcome of an election shouldn’t be pursued during an election is ridiculous?

Flaneur OBrien · 15-08-2023 9:49am

So the party of law and order should pardon their ex leader if he’s found guilty by a court of law?

My simplistic mind prefers the party of law and order living up to their name where no man is above the law.

everlast75 · 15-08-2023 9:51am

https://twitter.com/neal_katyal/status/1691260726793699329?s=20

Delicious 😋

everlast75 · 15-08-2023 9:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979933#Comment_120979933

"Trump may very well be found guilty"

Did you hear the "perfect" phone call?

Cody montana · 15-08-2023 9:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979968#Comment_120979968

Tis almost like they’re a bunch of hypocrites?

eightieschewbaccy · 15-08-2023 9:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979876#Comment_120979876

You've pushed multiple different conspiracy theories in the last week alone... He's facing new charges nearly every two months atm. On top of that, the frequency of him being in court means that the odds heavily favour it overlapping with cases such as Hunter Biden. Conspiracy theorists always try to find a pattern where there is none, this is exactly what you're doing.

Billy Mays · 15-08-2023 9:58am

Let's move on and unite the country by pardoning the guy who did more than anyone to divide it 👍🏻

Quin_Dub · 15-08-2023 10:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979876#Comment_120979876

And a lot of those same "Many people" think that JFK Jr is going to return from the grave to be Trumps VP or that the Covid Vaccine has a micro-chip in it or that Seth Rich was murdered because he "knew too much" or that Democrats murder children to harvest their "adrenochrome".

That Conspiracy theory loons see a conspiracy doesn't make it real.

That calculating political operatives with a long history of lies and fraud perpetuate the idea that it's a conspiracy doesn't make it real either.

Trump and his cronies are getting indicted every other week because there is overwhelming evidence that they committed crimes.

Here's a "Conspiracy theory" for you - Trump lapdogs like Jordan and Comer specifically plan to announce the latest fantasy from their Hunter Biden Snipe Hunt because they know yet another indictment is coming for Trump.

And given that Jordan/Comer announcing some piece of baseless nonsense is far easier to schedule at short notice than an entire grand jury process I know which stupid theory is infinitely more plausible.

Water John · 15-08-2023 10:05am

Good analysis here of Fani Willis as a prosecutor, also the wide range of the Georgia RICO Act. Trump has certainly met his match.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/14/donald-trump-prosecutor-fulton-county-georgia-district-attorney-fani-willis

Quin_Dub · 15-08-2023 10:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979933#Comment_120979933

Were he a "benign political figure" he wouldn't have done the things he's been indicted with in the first place!!

What utter nonsense.

Patrick2010 · 15-08-2023 10:05am

MAGA supporters complained about investigations into Trumps various crimes last year were an attempt to influence the mid term elections, now they're an attempt to influence an election almost 16 months away. So basically Trump supporters are saying Trump should not face any investigations from 2020 to 2024?

duploelabs · 15-08-2023 10:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979847#Comment_120979847

Correlation doesn't prove causation. It's clear how you fall for that qanon sh!te

ohnonotgmail · 15-08-2023 10:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979802#Comment_120979802

or more likely trump knew via his attorneys that an indictment was imminent so dropped some hunter biden "news" as an attempt at distraction.

ohnonotgmail · 15-08-2023 10:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979933#Comment_120979933

but he isn't benign. he fomented an insurrection. it is only right that justice is seen to be done.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 15-08-2023 10:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980038#Comment_120980038

They don't think he should face any investigations, full stop.

I'm still curious to know what credible explanation they can offer for the charges on the basis that they're all political.

Penn · 15-08-2023 10:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980080#Comment_120980080

It's such a bizarre argument that he shouldn't face charges while running in a democratic election, even though half the charges he's facing are to do with trying to prevent a democratic election from being recognised/certified and doing more to damage people's faith in democratic elections than anyone else in a hundred years, and that those charges were being investigated before he announced he was going to run again.

Christ it's like the police being about to arrest a bank robber for a previous bank robbery, but then people saying the police shouldn't arrest him because they see him walking into another bank with a balaclava and a burlap sack with a giant $ on it.

duploelabs · 15-08-2023 10:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979901#Comment_120979901

The same candidate who said they'd let China invade Taiwan after 2028?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/campaigns/vivek-ramaswamy-let-china-attack-taiwan-2028

Quin_Dub · 15-08-2023 10:30am

What's telling in all the GOP bleating around this is that not one of them has said anything remotely like "Donald Trump is innocent and a jury of his peers will confirm that"

They are all either saying that the charges should be dropped or that he should be pardoned.

So the story they are all going with is either that he is definitely guilty but they don't care and plan to pardon him regardless OR that the entire US Justice system is utterly corrupt and cannot be trusted by Republicans anywhere.

So either they don't care about the law so they'll pardon a guilty man or they don't think the justice system is valid in the US.

The "party of law and order" eh ??

15-08-2023 10:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980118#Comment_120980118

I personally don't understand why the United States would embark on nuclear war with China, triggering the end of civilization itself, over the size of an island less than half the size of Ireland. I believe in arming Taiwan to hell, much like we are doing with Ukraine, and leave it at that -- rather than have the US and China engage in nuclear conflict.

From the link you quoted:

I’m being very clear: Xi Jinping should not mess with Taiwan until we have achieved semiconductor independence, until the end of my first term when I will lead us there,” Ramaswamy said Monday. "And after that, our commitments to Taiwan, our commitments to be willing to go to military conflict, will change after that, because that’s rationally in our self-interest.”

But that's not relevant to Donald Trump, so let's leave it there.

That said, I do believe that Trump should choose Vivek Ramaswamy as his running mate in the forthcoming election.

eightieschewbaccy · 15-08-2023 10:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980144#Comment_120980144

Meanwhile continuing to not discuss the actual credibility of the charges. The former president of the US is facing just under 90 serious criminal charges and you've either downplayed or pushed conspiracy theories...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 15-08-2023 10:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979901#Comment_120979901

So.. if someone commits a crime, it should be put to one side and you should be pardoned...? Why, then, have a system of justice? Might as well just scrap all laws and make everything legal if you're not going to convict anyone (assuming your view is consistant and you believe everyone to be equal in the eyes of the law...)

Incidentally, if you think he should be pardoned, then that implies you think he's guilty of something in the first place...

odyssey06 · 15-08-2023 10:44am

@[Deleted User] care to comment on Trump's personal attacks on judges and witnesses?

After all, these are your words elsewhere discussing American politics:

The classic Ad hominem; trying to dismiss an argument or idea based on attacking the person who made the argument.

It's widely considered among the feeblest and weakest forms of argument.

15-08-2023 10:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980174#Comment_120980174

Personal insults and Ad hominem are two different things.

I've no doubt that Trump characteristically insulted judges and witnesses and so forth, but that doesn't an Ad hominem make.

PropJoe10 · 15-08-2023 10:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979901#Comment_120979901

There are few more serious charges that can be laid in a democratic system, than charges of trying to wilfully overturn a free and fair election. Pardoning someone for something like campaign finance violations would be one thing. But pardoning someone for inciting an attack on the Capitol and for trying to overturn a fair election in Georgia would be setting a truly awful precedent.

People need to be tried according to the facts of what happened, not according to political considerations. If you issue a pardon to Trump for what he did in 2020, that again gives future Presidents a free reign to do whatever they want. It'd be horrendous and I can't understand how people think otherwise.

briany · 15-08-2023 10:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980038#Comment_120980038

Die-hard Trump supporters will frame every single thing said or done against Trump as an unfair move to try and take him down. Every single time. Without exception. If Trump shot someone on 5th Avenue, his supporters would say the victim fully deserved it. There is no end to how they will merrily rearrange reality to make him the hero of the story.

Nothing like this has been seen the history of the U.S.. A former president under 4 indictments. To the Trump supporters, this only shows how desperate the Deep State is to take him down.

...lads, he's been recorded on the phone to the Georgia SoS. He was live on the news riling up those supporters at the Capitol based on no credible evidence (only one lawsuit filed in the aftermath of 2020 succeeded and it was over vote curing in Pennsylvania), and for months before that. He's on tape admitting that he couldn't declassify those documents anymore. It isn't just some conspiracy against him. He is actually that bad.

If people want to talk about the Deep State, I would argue that Donald Trump is a great friend of it, because Donald Trump revels in division, and that division prevents any political cohesion that could potentially break the monopoly of any of the monied interests sitting behind the scenes. He's the ultimate diversionary sideshow. It's maybe time he agrees to step out of public life and give some room for a real unifier to try and step forward.

mcmoustache · 15-08-2023 10:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979876#Comment_120979876

Multiple events happen on the same day all the time. In fact, if you took any day at random, you would find that more than one thing happens on most days. Some people read a lot into those coincidences and in the olden days, you'd find them on conspiracy sites coming up with spurious connections between events. These days, those batshít conspiracy theories are part of the US rightwing mainstream but that doesn't make it any less batshít.

What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

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