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General gaming discussion

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,245 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I do remember dropping Bloodborne at time of release and playing Scholar of the First Sin as I was so used to 60 FPS on PC at the time that the badly paced 30 FPS was really horrible to get used to. It really keeps the game back from being one of my From Soft favs. I mean the framerate in multiplayer is so bad it's not even worth trying which cuts out a massive amount of that what the game is offering.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭Andrew76


    Yes. The Handler class gives you a dog and Summoner class gives two minions, not sure if there are others. I play solo and am using the gunslinger as primary class and handler as secondary atm. The dog is handy for taking agro off you I find.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,157 ✭✭✭Markitron


    Has anyone ever actually said this? Like really?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Jedi games have story mode difficulty, that's why.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,570 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I've said before that it was Jedi Fallen Order that ended up being my gateway to FromSoftware games. I'd tried Bloodborne a year or two before but just couldn't get into it. Played Fallen Order and loved it, and it was Souls-like in terms of the respawn, meditation point mechanics. And I saw people say the combat was like a poorer version of Sekiro. So I tried Sekiro and absolutely loved it. But it also gave me a greater understanding of how FromSoftware design their games, why they're so hard at the start, why failing isn't always a bad thing etc.

    So I gave Bloodborne another shot and got into it that time. Then Demons Souls remake, Dark Souls 3 and then Elden Ring.

    I don't know if I ever would have played Sekiro without playing Fallen Order first. Yes, the combat and Souls-like mechanics of it is a dumbed-down version of Sekiro, but it was a useful stepping stone to make me give Sekiro (and by extension the FromSoftware games) a try.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,157 ✭✭✭Markitron


    There's nothing wrong with having more accessible versions of From's games. They have introduced some great mechanics and general game design but they are not for everyone. Having something like the Jedi games is a nice compromise for not having difficulty options in the real deal.

    Also I will say this about the Jedi games, at least they mostly copied and learned the right lessons from the From games, instead of just making their game unreasonably difficult and calling it a day like most of the other imitators.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭Cordell


    It depends on who you ask, From fans will always say From games are reasonably challenging and that's how they're supposed to be, adding difficulty levels will create the temptation of lowering the difficulty and missing out on the intended design and the reward of winning a difficult fight. The right lessons are in Elden Ring, that is when things get tough go somewhere else, level up some more and then return, maybe respec, maybe try a different weapon.

    If you want unreasonably difficult, then Returnal is that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,897 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    The Jedi games were brilliant and two of my favourite games of the last few years (and two of only a few I was bothered to earn a platinum trophy on). Absolutely loved the story and how it fit into the Star Wars universe. It was challenging but not crazily so which kept it accessible.

    It's a bit pathetic the amount of superiority complexes that the From games have spawned in some players.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭Cordell


    The Jedi games were indeed brilliant and IMHO the best SW games EVER, unfortunately they were plagued by performance issues and progress breaking bugs.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,245 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    A lot of the time I don't think it's a superiority complex. Having to listen to people say they are rubbish or badly designed from people who's only problem is they didn't give the game enough time is just maddening, especially as it can put other people off enjoying the games. I find with From Software fans they really just want more people to play their game and it's very frustrating hearing this. I've had to put up with it since I imported Demon's Souls and tried to tell people it was incredible only to be told to shut up and play Uncharted 2. It's the same feeling you get when you tell a friend that a new TV show is amazing and they never watch it. Or trying to tell people Ace Combat 7 is one of the best action games of the decade and nobody listening 🤬

    I mean this is where my frustration with the Jedi games comes from. They're not bad games at all but it's like 'hey if you liked the jedi games you should give the From games a go because they're even better and you have a better understanding of how they work now'. It's coming from a place that wants people to experience a great game which is frustrating when it's turned into a rant about how From fans are stuck up.

    I also think some people are too sensitive when it comes to the advice from From players. They see the likes of 'have a bit more patience', 'give it time', 'practice a bit more', as some sort of slight against their ability as a gamer. Even 'Git Gud', which has always been a joke, gets on peoples nerves. It was a humourous comment about how in From games sometimes there's no other way to progress other than to take the time to learn boss patterns and get better at the game but has since been weaponised against From Software players when nobody (well there's always a few assholes) says it outside of jest.

    Anyway I'm glad to see the tide is changing. I had such a hard time when Demon's Souls was released to talk about how good it was and a game changer for the industry. Even having to listen to the likes of the Giantbombcast talk about how the level design and combat mechanics of From games were terrible riled me up. No game is for everyone but I know there's a lot of people out there that would love From games that are put off by the hyperbole around their difficulty and inaccessibility.

    And I've also got a very close friend that bounced off Dark Souls because they ended up in the skeleton knightmare, loved the two Jedi games, and won't go back and try and From game though I said I'd co-op with him 😖



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,245 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Excuse me but Tie Fighter would like to have a word with you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Sure, let's just hope it doesn't miss me ;P

    The thing about From games and any game in general: if you're not having fun, then what's the point? Git gud or not, it's your choice, and it's their choice to make their games as they like. Not all games have to be accessible to everyone. I tried Dark Souls III, didn't liked it, moved on.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,245 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Agree totally here. The people whining about making the games accessible really are the biggest whingers. Firstly making a game easier can really negatively affect how a games plays and the experience. If you want to balance multiple difficultly levels then that takes a lot of development time and many developers can't afford that. And even at that, most From games have an easy mode built in with the multiplayer co-op. Just like film not all movies are for everyone. It's the same with games and that's perfectly fine, they don't have to cater to everyone.

    But what really winds me up about these people is they are almost always able bodied people moaning about how they just want to experience the story like everyone else (if you play From games for the story then you're kind of doing it wrong anyway). Then they give out that the games aren't accessible to people with disabilities which is funny because I follow quiet a few disabled gamers, some of them quadriplegics, that have no problem with From games or old NES games or fighting games when they use controllers especially adapted for them. It's so disingenuous. Nintendo should be rightfully called out for not allowing controls to be modified per game as this genuinely affects disabled people but From have fully customisable controls. The people making these custom controllers and Microsoft do incredible work helping these people enjoy games. The able bodied people using them for their argument just come off as very disingenuous.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,052 ✭✭✭McFly85


    I genuinely believe if people who don’t play From games because of the perceived difficulty played a version that did have an easier mode, they’d end up wondering what everyone sees in these games.

    In general, From games aren’t that difficult. I bounced off Bloodborne originally because I was finding it incredibly difficult at the beginning, regularly dying and going through the same area again.

    Years of playing video games had me conditioned to think that the beginning of a game is easy and your hand will be held for the first while - so I assumed that if I’m having trouble at the start, I’ll get annihilated when the game really gets going.

    But, the opposite is true. Not that it gets easier, it’s just that you get better. Once you get through that opening, can start levelling and exploring, it becomes more than just constant death. The game throws you in at the deep end and becomes more engaging for it.

    If you remove that and put difficulties that allow players to get through relatively painlessly then it just becomes boss after boss without too much learning to do. There’s no plot to keep you going either, just lore - and lore and setting over plot is perfect for a game where the challenge is supposed to be at the forefront.

    And the games generally go to great lengths to give you tools if you’re having trouble. Levelling up, boss specific items or literally asking someone else to help, be it AI or another person.

    Miyazaki himself said it’s not about putting a player through hell, just giving them a push to accomplish something they didn’t think they could do - and when I did finally beat that boss that took me ages, I was hooked.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,157 ✭✭✭Markitron


    Just to be clear, I was not saying that From games are unreasonably difficult. I was saying that their many imitators just make their games unreasonably difficult because they think that is what makes those games appealing. They completely miss the fact that From's games are challenging but fair (most of the time). When a lesser developer tries to copy them you usually end up with enemies that hit way too hard or have very cheap attacks etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,897 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    And not all games are 'good' or 'better' purely because they require you to "git gud" to enjoy them.

    I honestly couldn't care what games people enjoy, if you enjoy them that's the main thing whether it's the hardest game in the world or the easiest. The slur that you're not enjoying it simply because you're not good enough is pathetic, smarmy and reductive.

    As you say, if you don't like a game, move on. And if someone does like the game but others don't, they should move on too. Why throw shade on those that don't like it or like a different game is beyond me.

    (I am agreeing with you Cordell btw 😂)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,157 ✭✭✭Markitron


    This is the correct answer, TIE Fighter is the greatest SW game ever.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭Cordell


    I can see you're agreeing :) and if I may add one thing, games are a craft and a form of art and it's normal to have some artists that will make compromises to make their art more accessible, and some who won't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,570 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    One of the things Sekiro and then my second attempt at Bloodborne taught me about FromSoftware games is that they appear very difficult for the first few hours, but that's because the game is trying to drill the mechanics and tactics of the game into you. You die a lot at the start because if you're just rushing in, you're going to get smacked the f*ck back. And so once you play the game as the game was trying to teach you, you start progressing and die a lot less.

    There are still very difficult enemies, bosses, platforming (by far the most janky and worst bits of FromSoftware games imo), and the game will occasionally just say F*ck You and throw in something that will almost definitely kill you if you have no prior knowledge of it. But that brings up the second thing that you learn from playing FromSoftware games; death does not equal failure. If anything, it can help you. You die and drop your souls/echoes/ruins, but provided you can make it back to that point to collect them, you'll have earned more on your way back to them and end up with more than you had the first time, and now you're forewarned about whatever kind of trap got you previously that you can use that caution going forward.

    There can definitely be a frustration if you're repeatedly dying over and over at the same point, but the early parts of the games as well as all the memes about how often you die gives a false impression that that's how the entire game/franchise is. That's rarely the case. You tend to die far less as you go on, except maybe to bosses/special enemies. But even then, if you perserve, there can be more to gain from deaths than lose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭Cordell


    I can only talk about Elden Ring as it's the only one I've completed: not only it's (mostly) fair in term of difficulty, but if you put a bit of effort to look up some ways to make it easier, it can be story mode level difficulty with some farming and some overpowered builds.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭Unearthly


    Elden Ring was a strange one for me. I looked up what people found the hardest bosses were and I beat some of them first go. The ones I found hardest were the optional bosses like the Bell Bearing Hunter in Caelid who must have smashed me like 50 times



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,157 ✭✭✭Markitron


    That's pretty normal for these games. I beat Ornstein and Smaugh in Dark Souls on my first try* and that was supposed to be a legendarily hard fight, but Rom in Bloodborne took me about 500 tries and no one else seemed to struggle with that one.

    *technically on my first try. Smaugh and I killed each other at the exact same time, I got the victory screen as I died and when I respawned at the bonfire they were dead.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,052 ✭✭✭McFly85


    I couldn’t count how many bosses I’ve gotten down to a sliver of health on the first try only to be completely obliterated the next 50 times.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,126 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Anyone see anymore on GAME stores opening, I have recently seen a few of them popping up up north inside Sports Direct shops that were not there before only reason I am interested is the niche switch games they stock would be amazing to have access to. Hallow Knight was £20 in Newry a few weeks ago God damn cex charge over €40 pre-owned for that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,126 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Several in Belfast city area have opened since March


    The Newry shop is open years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,970 ✭✭✭OptimusTractor




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,900 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    Amazon UK have physical Hollow Knight Switch for about 30 euros. Not sure what price free delivery kicks in, but "free" delivery with Amazon Prime.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,901 ✭✭✭✭Jordan 199


    The first few weeks of October will be busy for me. Assassin's Creed Mirage on the 5th of October and Forza Motorsport on the 10th of October.

    Both games I am looking forward to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,596 ✭✭✭quokula


    It's 2023 and PC gaming is still a pain in the arse. Every now and then there's a rare game that's interesting enough and isn't available on console yet so I give it a go, and it's always stupid amounts of hassle.

    This time with BG3, I purchases on launch day on my macbook, since Steam specifically said it was available for OSX. Only after paying up and then downloading 70GB of data and opening the launcher does it tell you, no, it's not actually available for macbook and this is just the early access release.

    So over to my desktop to download all that data from scratch again, which took me way past any chance of playing on launch day. Got to it a couple of days later (between responsibilities and family I can't carve out much time to go and sit in the home office on my own) only to find it needed a game update, so I waited for that. Then when that was done I opened it up to have to go through a bunch of custom account registration stuff while it through constant ads at me for digital deluxe editions and board games. Was done with that only to find it then needed a driver update so I had to wait for that. By the time that was done I had run out of time to play.

    So just I was about to have a go at actually playing the game for the first over lunch time, and it needs yet another driver update which I am now sitting waiting for. Maybe I'll actually get to the tutorial this time, who knows.

    Should have just waited for the PS5 release.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,245 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Well trying the game on Mac isn't exactly the fault of PC gaming and you decided it seems to try play it on a PC that hadn't been updated in yonks, probably not turned on in yonks as o have this stuff auto updating. Always going to be hassle. I've the exact same hassle when I try to play a game on my PS4 and have to go through the hassle of a convoluted update process and agreements to sign. I feel console gaming is slowly taking on the worst aspects of the PC experience while for the most part pc has gotten more streamlined.



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