Derelict buildings in Dublin for decades: why?

Famous Blue Raincoat · 07-08-2023 10:52am #1

This row of houses at the Grand Canal, Dublin 6 has been derelict for the past 30 or 40 years at least: https://tinyurl.com/yrfdpw7w

Boom, recession, boom, legislation to prevent hoarding, vacant buildings and whatever else - and they're still there in an expensive area of the city. Does anybody know why? Apparently there's a housing shortage for a long time, and Dublin City Council still allows it to sit there derelict. Why?

Have you noticed any other derelict houses and buildings in Dublin which make a mockery of all this political puff about tackling the housing shortage in 2023?

L1011 · 07-08-2023 10:56am

I believe those specific derelicts are owned by the exceptionally politically connected CIF, so no council would ever act against them.

No enforcement, possibly due to no budget for enforcement, of derelict sites rules going back decades is the core problem here. There has been usable legislation for a lot longer than the recent vacant site taxation, but just not used.

10-10-20 · 07-08-2023 10:59am

And this hideous mess... on our own O'Connell Street!

https://goo.gl/maps/GxMy7RoL3B358MHQA

Tusky · 07-08-2023 11:46am

All of these are within about a one-minute walk of the main entrance of Phoenix Park. It's very frustrating.

Paddico · 15-08-2023 3:56pm

Some nice buildings there, esp second last photo

crushproof · 15-08-2023 11:03pm

It really is baffling considering it's meant to be fastest growing city economically in Europe, and of course a city in the midst of a chronic hosuing shortage.

I was in Edinburgh recently and didn't see a single derelict building within the city, yet there are hundreds in Dublin with the above just a fration of what is within the canals. It's seriously depressing and makes me believe that we're just papering over the cracks of a made up economic boom.

expectationlost · 16-08-2023 8:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058308348/derelict-buildings-in-dublin-for-decades-why

there was a cafe in the little house to the left but I think the pandemic killed it, a bigger cafe/restaurant would probably be best. council should CPO

Pixel Eater · 17-08-2023 2:37pm

Yeah this is very fustrating and has been an issue for years. The vacant sites on O'Connell Street, the main street of the country are an embassesment.

Probaly lots of reason: some could be stuck in probate, some could be hoarding so that the price increases but some actually be uneconomic to develop. Even if you have a site or derelict property, it would cost 100s thousands to develop so unless the owner is a big player or have deep pockets then they might not be able to afford it or think it's worth while as they mightn't make their money back. Having said that many of the main offenders are state bodies.

Also, while there is now plently of grants to get there properties fixed up, there's still not many disincentives (like tax and penalties) to compel owners to do so.

Pixel Eater · 18-08-2023 9:29am

Interesting article here:

Vacancy Watch: In the shadow of Croke Park, council says it cannot develop Russell Street site because one owner won’t sell - Dublin Inquirer

Can't develop as the owner won't sell. Also highlights the cumbersome and slow CPO process and the lack of will to penalise owners of derelict buildings.

whisky_galore · 18-08-2023 9:38am

Greed and apathy mostly.

whisky_galore · 18-08-2023 9:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120983778#Comment_120983778

What did they call it a number of years ago that offended everyone? Leprechaun economics.

magicbastarder · 18-08-2023 9:46am

i think the AG has previously warned re constitutional issues regarding property seizure? however, councils have started CPOing derelict houses (i think Louth CC are the most active here, but i'm aware of DCC doing it).

the problem would simply be funds; the council don't have funds to start CPOing properties all over the city; that could run to tens or hundreds of millions. what could work (if it was legally possible!) is the council issues a 'seizure' notice on a property, and if it's not sold/addressed within one year, the council seizes it, puts it up for public auction, and hands the sale funds over to the owner minus a €20k handling fee (or puts the money in escrow if the owner can't be found). i suspect that could be fun trying to draft a law on that though!

Hotblack Desiato · 18-08-2023 4:22pm

Yet we are supposed to have billions in bugetary surplus, what good is that if it is not used for the benefit of the people?

Vacant properties in built-up areas need to be taxed out of existence. If the owner can't pay, they sell, if they don't sell and don't pay it's seized. Ironically this is exactly how things work in that bastion of private property rights, the USA.

Not to detract from your point at all OP but I think those houses were occupied as far as the late 90s or maybe a bit later. A woman drowned in a basement flat - if not there, then very near there - when the canal flooded sometime in the 90s.

Famous Blue Raincoat · 23-08-2023 12:38pm

Lower Dominick Street - one side of the street has every flat boarded up for years now:

It's quite galling given all the lipservice to solving the housing crisis.

Hotblack Desiato · 23-08-2023 6:27pm

Yep, huge numbers of DCC-owned dwellings empty, many other DCC and other State body owned sites derelict for years.

Gloomtastic! · 23-08-2023 7:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121016067#Comment_121016067

The other side of the street took 19 years to get through all the bureaucratic nonsense.

Famous Blue Raincoat · 08-09-2023 11:15am

Sandwith Street Upper, with a much taller, newer office block opposite. Has anybody in DCC thought that they could build a decent number of homes on this side of the road if they did a CPO on the hoarders here? Indeed, knock down the old DCC council flats beside them and redevelop the whole area to maximise all the space and build up in the next year, not put it on another plan for many years down the road?

https://tinyurl.com/yu89w5p9

In the last, 2019, local government election to Dublin City Council, Sinn Féin won 8 seats, having justifiably lost a whopping 8 seats in that election which followed a huge increase in the housing crisis in the city. Fianna Fáil is now the largest political party on DCC with 11 seats, the Greens have 10 and Fine Gael 9 seats. Labour has 8 seats on DCC. So, it seems the eternally worse-than-ever housing crisis is very firmly a collective effort by all councillors elected to Dublin City Council. Meanwhile, nobody is highlighting the complete inaction by all these political parites on the huge numbers of derelict sites across Dublin City.

magicbastarder · 08-09-2023 11:23am

What powers do the councillors have but are not using?

Famous Blue Raincoat · 24-09-2023 7:26pm

Chapelizod village, one of the most naturally quaint and historic areas of Dublin located as it is between the Liffey, the Phoenix Park and the Strawberry Beds, still has loads of derelict houses in it, a number of which are huge and sitting there for decades. Why?

https://tinyurl.com/ycex7zda

https://tinyurl.com/3x33y7ck

https://tinyurl.com/2uj4eyvf

Famous Blue Raincoat · 24-09-2023 7:29pm

Ardscoil Éanna on quite a large site on the Crumlin Road is closed since 2016 and still sitting there with a notice for planning of some sort with absolutely no change in the past seven years:

https://tinyurl.com/yc5874hn

Also, in yesterday's Irish Times:

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2023/09/23/dublins-vacant-buildings-its-my-property-ill-do-whatever-i-want-with-it/

25-09-2023 11:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151927#Comment_121151927

The house in the third picture is actually the child hood home of the author Sheridan Le Fanu who is largerly forgotten in the popular consciousness.

Sheridan Le Fanu - Wikipedia

He was in the first rank of Victorian ghost story/horror writers. He was a friend and mentor to Bram Stoker and published a vampire novel Carmilla a full thirty years before Dracula.

The house in the picture is the setting for one of his most celebrated works the House By The Church Yard.

Such building should surely have preservation orders due to their historical lineage?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_House_by_the_Churchyard

loyatemu · 25-09-2023 12:17pm

Such building should surely have preservation orders due to their historical lineage?

maybe but that would make them even less likely to be brought back into use.

BlueSkyDreams · 30-09-2023 5:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018203#Comment_121018203

Other side of the street looks so much better now, but still seems to have the same old troublesome social tenants.

Council should put their money into developing run down buildings rather than buying stock from private developers & they should build MIXED developments, not 100% social ghettos.

But of course, they want the easiest and cheapest solution, using our tax payers money, which is to scab off the private developers, even though they already steal their 20% social allocation.

DCC are an absolute joke, all they do is hold the city back.

And when you consider how much money they have, its unreal that they cant even deliver basic street cleaning services. let alone build new housing or restore derelict property.

Drummerboy2 · 10-11-2023 1:00pm

Unfortunately, instead of building houses for the city, DCC are more interested in building bike lanes. O'Connell Street is a disgrace. Buildings left empty for a generation now. Why are they not taxing these hoarders?

magicbastarder · 10-11-2023 1:01pm

because it's not within the power of DCC to implement a land hoarding tax, that would need to be done at government level.

victor8600 · 10-11-2023 1:08pm

City councils cannot just CPO all derelict properties, even if they had money for that, it takes time to plan and to renovate them. We need a vacant property tax that is significant enough to compel the owners of derelict properties to either use them or sell them as soon as possible.

Use the proceeds of this tax to renovate properties that are being CPOed. The house of the author Sheridan Le Fanu is a great example -- it should be turned into a museum, the new vacant property tax proceeds could facilitate that.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-11-2023 2:51pm

The large site next to the Carlton has been derelict for 50 years on the principal street of our capital city. It's a disgrace.

Derelict buildings in Dublin for decades: why?

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