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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    In Ireland we rode our luck as well, at a financial cost. We must roll the dice again and hope most of this Winter is just as mild. European countries priced Pakistan out of the market for gas, Pakistanis are directly, even today severely impacted by gas shortages. There is speculation that Pakistan could collapse as a country, energy shortage being just one of the issues facing the population. The nightmare scenario for us in Ireland is a severe prolonged cold period that runs down gas stocks across Western Europe, if such an event leads to gas linepack pressure dropping below threshold, some gas supply lines will be cut off, leaving customers switching to electricity to keep warm, putting even more load on the grid. The 200KM of inter-connectors are the only storage facility the Irish gas network has.

    The ‘perfect storm’ for our simultaneous gas and electricity interconnector operation would be a sudden cold snap with no wind and as a result high use of gas fired power generation in lieu of wind generation. These weather conditions tend to arise during prolonged period of high meteorological pressure over northern Europe bringing low temperatures and low wind. Our gas and electricity interconnectors will both be importing heavily, and their availability and reliability will be paramount. source

    Extended cold periods are infrequent here, roughly intervals of 15 to 20 years, 1947, 1962/63, 1982, 2009 & 2010, March 2018 being memorable instances of severe cold within the populations living memory. April 2018 saw a jump in excess Winter deaths that was not matched until Covid. Many farm and wild animals died of exposure as well. Economic situation has changed since 2018, the price of energy has risen, meaning there are more people on the margins who cannot afford to keep warm and feed themselves. As the decade passes the dependence on gas will only increase and the likelihood of a severe Winter season increases.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 381 ✭✭bluedex


    ..

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    British government analysis using carbon cost of £150/tonne whereas actual market rate is £40/tonne



  • Registered Users Posts: 381 ✭✭bluedex


    Get on your bike you big spoofer. I'm here. I know what the weather is like. I can see it. You can believe all the made up **** you read on internet all you like.


    Next thing you'll be trying to tell me Valencia isn't part of Europe or something .

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    what is causing the likelihood of a severe winter season to increase?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    It is within the normal range of weather patterns in Ireland, most Irish Winters are relatively mild (temps ~4 to 7C), Average lifespan in Ireland is ~82 years, simply the passage of time means you will encounter these conditions at once or twice in your life. If you have lived the first 10 years of your life without encountering a severe Winter in Ireland, then you have no experience of the range of weather patterns in Ireland and you will be surprised and unprepared when they do happen, especially when the mass media tell you how warm and wet it is getting. Many people wear tee shirts indoors during the Winter. During the 2010 event water pipes froze across the country, it was discovered many new estates built in the boom, had pipes that were not buried at regulation depth, frozen pipes & radiators burst and more damage was done once the ice thawed because people did not know to turn off the water supply (or drain water tanks in empty houses).

    1982 was great fun if you were a kid, a nightmare if you were an adult, had it lasted even another week, hunger would have become a very real situation for many people, even then many cupboards were bare after 2 weeks. Since 1982, the population has nearly doubled, most people have 3 days food supply at home, we have outsourced the preservation and supply of food to the supermarkets, all depending on a reliable electricity and transport network. Public transport shuts down in adverse conditions, most people use all weather tyres on cars, no Winter tyres, even diesel can turn to sludge and we are not Finland.

    "Green" policies are intended to shutdown the populations access to primary energy sources such as turf, coal, natural gas and move everyone to a secondary source: electricity, powered by unreliable solar panels and wind turbines, these fail easily under normal conditions, what lunatic is expecting unreliable generation to work under the worst adverse Winter conditions?

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Renewables sell their energy at the price they agreed under the RESS auction

    If the electricity price is higher than their agreed auction price, then the wind generators have to refund customers some of that difference

    This is why we're getting about a hundred euros a year back from the PSO refund

    So it's both, we're having a lower unit price of our electricity compared with what it would be if almost all of our electricity was dependent on imported fossil fuels and we're also getting a redund of some of our electricity costs to offset some of the extra profits the wind generators got when wholesale prices were higher

    We should also be adding windfall taxes to recoup money from the profiteering by oil and gas companies which should then go to pay for upgrades to the grid to further reduce our demand on fossil fuels.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    How are Eirgrid or Esb asleep at the wheel? They don't dictate public policy either. One runs the transmission grid and implements policy, the other does the same for the distribution grid (plus owns transmission infrastructure, some generation and supplies some homes/businesses).



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    "First for an August day" being quoted as if it's some sort of achievement. August is the lowest demand month of the year. It's also one where the wind starts to blow a little again.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Another Climate case success story, this time from Montana in the US.

    RTE news : Montana court rules for young people in climate trial


    There are hundreds of these cases working their way through court systems around the globe and a lot of them are finding success, much like the FIE case here in Ireland which is was one of the first



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  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Coolcormack1979


    Gibbons the farmer’s son who hates farmers cause he didn’t get his way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    He's still happy to take the rent money for his land, and is going to coin a pretty penny by selling it off soon too. Not a peep out of him rewilding it or managing it for nature himself. He wants others to do that. In other news,

    EU off track to reach net-zero energy system by 2050

    The EU still accounts for 8% of global energy-related emissions and is off track to reach a net-zero energy system by 2050

    The article is a summary of a McKinsey report which essentially says more money is needed for renewables.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The article is a summary of a McKinsey report which essentially says more money is needed for renewables.

    70% more if I read it right. Its useful information for policymakers as they can use it to justify increased spending in these areas, much like the recent announcement from Germany about spending 212 billion between 2024 and 2027



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    What does it say though on the existing plans and budgets in place to meet the goals? Seems to me they wildly underestimated the transition cost.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Sure thing. You believe yourself. Don't expect me to believe you



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    It is an achievement. We're trying to build a new grid. Every milestone like this is a step along the way to our goals of a carbon neutral energy system.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The transition cost gets more and more expensive the longer we delay meaningful action.

    We were told in the stern review in 2006 (what we already knew for more than a half a decade) that delaying action on climate change would lead to exponentially more expensive costs to mitigate the harm and transition away from fossil fuels

    If the building regulations were updated 20 years ago instead of 2019, we'd have already done most of the transition away from our dependency on gas, most houses would already have solar panels and A rated insulation, and most would be using heat pumps instead of imported gas.....

    Post edited by Akrasia on


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Because they are currently over a decade behind on a large number of grid reinforcement programs. Also, as TSO/DSO/System owners they should be far stronger with the government and stop making promises they know they can't keep. The 30GW of OSW plan is a perfect example where none of the adults (engineers) in the room stood up and told them the emperor has no clothes on.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Q2 Connecting Ireland report is out. There's been good progress on rolling out new rural PT options and there's a mountain of new routes scheduled before the end of the year. The country is finally getting a decent level of coverage in terms of rural PT. Still a long way to go of course, but great progress all the same

    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Connecting-Ireland-Bulletin-Q2-2023-PDF.pdf

    A few more years like this and it may become a viable option to live without a car in rural areas



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ME forecasters advised to prepare for more extreme weather events

    ADVICE GIVEN TO forecasters in Met Éireann said Ireland needed to prepare itself for much heavier rainfall, storm surges and coastal flooding, as well as the growing “likelihood of extreme weather events”, documents show.

    The climate guidance was sent to meteorologists in June amidst a summer of freak weather events globally including record-breaking temperatures, catastrophic flooding, and out-of-control forest fires.

    The Met Éireann guidance said it was “beyond doubt” that human influence had warmed the atmosphere, ocean, and land, and that temperatures here were up by approximately one degree Celsius since 1900.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Coolcormack1979




  • Registered Users Posts: 381 ✭✭bluedex


    Saw a very good point quoted today:

    "Just because you demand rigorous truth telling with respect to climate change doesn’t mean you don’t believe in anthropogenic climate change jfc it’s actually the opposite"

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users Posts: 381 ✭✭bluedex


    A prominent "climate activist" attacked accurate reporting of the Maui wildfires.

    "Great example of an influential climate activist attacking legacy media for its technically accurate reporting on climate

    Accurate reporting provides fodder for the bad guys, or something 

    Media org then caves to the pressure"

    https://twitter.com/RogerPielkeJr/status/1691435603500662785?t=Sdtg0kVNblQvrxAtDDGxQA&s=19

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Curious why you don't approve of rural public transport



  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Coolcormack1979


    Cause I would still need my car to get to the town that close to me on one of these routes.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You don't approve of investment in rural transport for Ireland because it doesn't work for your use case

    lol k



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    This is all good of course. I'd be amazed if anyone here said otherwise. Rural Ireland has a lot of catching up to do in order to have any sort of viable public transport options. Well done to all. There is, of course, a but. This is being sold as some great thing and "look at all these routes we're going to do". I did a quick search on a few random routes around areas I might be in more often than others. Just googled the route number and tfi. Say "819 tfi". And lo and behold, this route is already operational I believe - https://bustimes.org/services/819-athlone-mullingar, yet in the propaganda piece it's due to roll out in Q3.

    Another one due in Q3 though this, in fairness is an extension to what's already in place - https://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/TFI-Local-Link-Waterford-Route-361-Ardmore-to-Dungarvan-6pp-DL-Jan2023.ONLINE.pdf.

    How about this one, planned for Q3 this year but operational since November 2020 - https://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/TFI-Local-Link-Laois-Offaly-834-Portlaoise-to-Roscrea.pdf

    I'm actually very familiar with the last one as the bus operators wanted a place to park while between times and waiting for return journeys and I was approached about a yard I had. I said no due to insurance, so they actually park outside my grannies sometimes (possibly to piss me off out of spite!). The thing is, the engines aren't turned off. Just sitting idling while the driver reads the paper or the phone. Could be there 20 minutes or so. Not many worries about emissions. I'd seen the same in Athlone outside Woodies previously and further investigation told me that it was a union thing where they didn't accept a change to work practices that included switching off the engine when waiting between runs. Mad stuff ain't it (we should cull a few cows just to offset that)

    They aren't wrong. One way to help with flooding is to clean the rivers. Yet the environmentalists won't allow it. Spending millions on flood defences instead but yet not reverting rivers back to their water carrying capacity is a no no. Again, I've a story. Local river by me has trees fallen down across it. We asked the council and Inland Fisheries could we remove them. Were told no way , and we'd be monitored and prosecuted for interfering. The trees block the flow and trap debris and flood more land and houses now than ever. Now the houses are getting a flood wall built behind their houses on a small stream that runs into the river to stop them being flooded. Latest quote for the work is nearly 700k. There's no fish in the main river anymore, yet when it was cleaned each year it was heaving with trout. Hard to make sense of it

    Post edited by roosterman71 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306



    We were told in the stern review in 2006 (what we already knew for more than a half a decade) that delaying action on climate change would lead to exponentially more expensive costs to mitigate the harm and transition away from fossil fuels

    The methodology of the Stern report was roundly refuted a long time ago, as already outlined on this thread. It's not surprising that greenies don't update their "facts" with new findings as that is the standard M.O. of a cult. But it needs to be called out as often as it is aired (yet again). The costs of transition will be unsustainable as long as greenies hitch their wagon to a horse that can't walk, let alone gallop.

    Another Climate case success story, this time from Montana in the US.

    The youngest plaintiff was two years old! 🙄 So they probably understood about as much as the average greenie about the connection between energy availability and human wellbeing. Would be nice to be able to sue the greens for the mental health impacts of selling "solutions" that can't work, but I doubt we'll see that anytime soon. We'll probably have to wait until green policies start killing people in the rich parts of the world they care about. (They're already killing people in poor places that don't count).



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    How ironic that they use a picture of flooding caused by poor planning and maintenance. There's a small underground river under that road that regularly floods and upgrade works to remediate it, are as usual, non existent. Absolutely nothing to do with climate change.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Just got a flier (actually, a four-page colour brochure) in the door from local TD Jennifer Carroll MacNeill. It's about the proposed Dublin Array offshore wind farm. She's Fine Gael, of course, but it might as well be a Green Party manifesto. She's selling the idea that the scheme will "result in an estimated local expenditure of €540 million in the Greater Dublin Area". That's pretty impressive for a project that will create just 80 full time jobs post-construction. You have to read the fine print to notice that the total spend is estimated across a 30 year lifetime of the project.

    Anyway, that's not my main quibble. Politicians always big up the impact of their favoured policies. No, it's more to do with the green catchphrases about a "global energy crisis", a "climate emergency", and a "need to end our dependence on imported fossil fuels which is driving up our electricity bills". In support of this last point she includes a section titled "Will my electricity be cheaper?"...

    The reason electricity prices are so high right now is because we depend so much on imported gas for our electricity. In April the price of a unit of electricity on the wholesale market was €126. The average price for offshore wind energy in the auction in May was €86, which is significantly lower. This will help cut costs, reduce emissions and make Ireland energy dependent (sic) in the medium term. It is essential to Ireland's macro-economic security and efficiency, and it is the right thing for the planet.

    This is bordering on outright lying, in the same vein as the "nine times cheaper" lie peddled by the greenies last year. The reason why wholesale prices were high in April was because of hedging. Gas prices were already under €50/MWh by that stage, down ~90% from the greenies' all time favourite cherrypicked date of 26-Aug-2022.


    In fact, if we look at annual averaged wholesale electricity prices in Ireland over the past few years we see the real implications (you have to multiply the left axis by 10 to convert €c/kWh to €/MWh):


    Average prices up to 2021 were generally around €50/MWh but as low as €30/MWh in the pandemic period. These wind auctions lock in a base price that is ~100% higher. The idea that this is cutting costs in the long run is a savage lie. And it must be pointed out that the run-up in gas prices long pre-dated the Ukraine war. This was the result of high Chinese demand in the post-Covid rebound, coupled with tight supply due to underinvestment resulting from Green policies. Remember China? The country that produces all the GHG emissions making stuff for western consumers who then weep that we must "Just Stop Oil".

    Still, you gotta hand it to the Greens. They cover every angle. Lobby like crazy to surreptitiously bring in legislation that nobody understands at the time. Brainwash the youth and terrify them into supporting the cause. Prevent capital investment in hydrocarbons that is needed to supply vital energy needs. When hydrocarbon prices inevitably go up, complain like mad about oil company profiteering and point out how much cheaper their crazy expensive renewables are. This is where the avaricious backers of the climate lobby really move in the for the big prize -- they are in it to make an absolute killing from guaranteed public funds. If anyone notices a stunt being pulled, just throw your hands in the air -- "we have NO CHOICE ... emissions cuts are LEGALLY BINDING". The final stage is where poor people around the world start dying, as they cannot possibly out-compete the rich world for the hydrocarbons that -- surprise, surprise -- the pampered greenies still entirely depend on. Green policies are not just destroying our own economy. They are the downright lethal and evil machinations of a nihilistic Malthusian cult with no higher morals than alleviating their own self-imposed mental torture. Lest we forget:




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