Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Yes, you were being insidious and continue doing so here with insidious pro-Russian talking points. The 'honesty' of your clarification can be judged here where you directly contradict yourself. Obvious evidence you were spreading insidious anti-Western or pro-Russian cues in the hope it wouldn't be challenged.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964541/#Comment_120964541

Noted that you entirely dodged the points put to you about boycotts, sporting events, etc.

Again with the insidious pro-Russian utterly false comparisons to Ireland. The IRA were an illegal organisation in the Republic. They tried to assassinate government officials. Russia, official state Russia, is waging war in Ukraine.

Let's be clear on this:

Russia as a country is inflicting war crimes, atrocities, child abuse, murders, executions, deliberate targeting of civilians, threatening Europe with nuclear weapons.

Do you accept without reservation, as a fact, that Russia has carried out those war crimes in its execution of the war?

Do you condemn without reservation such actions by Russia?

And accepting that:

Are Russians supposed to get off scot free and carry on their lives without ANY consequence for all of that?

That is not the question you were asked. Specific types of war crimes were listed.

"Russia is guilty of carrying out war crimes" does not answer that, it doesn't begin to do justice to the scale of the horrors Russia is inflicting on Ukraine.

What you asked was more specific:

Russia as a country is inflicting war crimes, atrocities, child abuse, murders, executions, deliberate targeting of civilians, threatening Europe with nuclear weapons.

Do you accept without reservation, as a fact, that Russia has carried out those war crimes in its execution of the war?

Do you condemn without reservation such actions by Russia?

And accepting that:

Are Russians supposed to get off scot free and carry on their lives without ANY consequence for all of that?

And these were some of the consequences I listed, not "kill all orcs" but:

Of course Russia should be shunned, sanctioned, boycotted.

They shouldn't get to go to sporting events as Team Russia, glorifying their nation, acting as if nothing is happening.

There has to be consequences for this illegal war, for the war crimes and atrocities. Signals from the rest of the world the conduct of their country is unacceptable.

Report from the BBC on the torture and mistreatment of Ukrainian POWs by Russian captors:

"Last September, Artem Seredniak, a senior lieutenant, had already been in Russian captivity for four months when he and about 50 other Ukrainians were transferred to Pre-Trial Detention Facility Number Two. They travelled in the back of a truck for hours, without knowing where they were going, blindfolded and tied to each other by their arms, like a "human centipede", Seredniak told me.

On their arrival in Taganrog, he recalled, an officer greeted them: "Hello boys. Do you know where you are? You'll rot here until the end of your lives." The captives remained silent. They were escorted inside the building, Seredniak said, had their fingerprints taken and clothes removed, were shaven and forced to shower.

At every step, guards at the facility, who carried black batons and metal bars, beat them in the legs, arms, or "anywhere they wanted", Seredniak said. "It's what they call 'reception'."

"Rotchuk said the captives "lived in permanent stress" in Taganrog. He recalled meeting a man, also a doctor, who had falsely admitted to removing the testicles of a Russian prisoner, desperate to put an end to the violence. "He said: 'OK, just leave me alone, I will sign the confession.' The officers then intimidated the other medics, saying: 'Ah, you helped him.'"

Guards gave Rotchuk electric shocks, he said, but he resisted. Rotchuk told me he was sent to solitary confinement for two months as punishment. The beatings happened almost every day; sometimes, several times a day, he said.

Rotchuk remembered one officer who appeared to take pleasure in kicking him in the chest, which left him with a persistent pain. He complained, but was given no help. "I had to tell myself: 'Dude, stay strong, you can't control the situation, so you need to accept it,'" Rotchuk recalled.

Not everyone had the same resilience, though. Seredniak said a fellow Azov fighter, in his late 20s, broke a small mirror that hung above his cell's sink, and used a shard to slice his throat. The man was rescued by other captives, who stopped the bleeding with their hands. Days later, Seredniak said, the prison staff removed the mirrors from all cells."

I'm of the mind that there are good Russians who are innocent of crimes in this war, and that there also extreemly brave Russians who have risked it all to call out the Kremlin on their nonsense (& deserve a tonne of praise). These people should not be hurt in this war, and should be assumed innocent until proven otherwise.

However, we can't pretend that the Russian Federation is being a normal civilised state in all of this. Steps needed to me made to underline to the Russian population that the actions of their nation are not an acceptable norm. While I am opposed to the killing or starving innocent Russian civilians in this war, and I am not opposed to sanctions being imposed to illustrate to their entire nation the seriousness of what they have done, so that they can get the impression that despite what the propagandists are telling them, none of this is good. That Russia engaging in an unjust war of annihilation, means that they can no longer access Western luxuries.

They'll still live without these things, and hopefully remain healthy, but they will not be able to enjoy these advantages of a civilised world, thanks to the actions of their government. They cannot go on holidays whereever they like anymore, but that is no war-crime.

As for sports; they should remain banned until they withdraw from Ukraine fully and make amends with them. How dare they expect to come to international sporting competitions, the alter of peaceful contest between nations, and feel like they can compete as if nothing is happening? Worse still, actually using these contests as a platform for the Nazi "Z" symboligy.

They'll live without joining in on an Olypmics or a World Cup etc. They'll live, and they hopefully also understand that Russia has made a very serious & continuing mistake by invading Ukraine.

"What exactly do you think they should do? I mean, sit out on o'connell st saying "I am against the war in Ukraine" holding a banner?"

Yes.... that would be a start.

I see both sides are claiming the other is almost spent numbers wise and will soon collapse. Whatever about Russia I doubt Ukraine would be conducting any offensive actions if this was true.

What I do see is Russia throwing much attacks at klivsheevka or however you spell it south of Bakhmut and other point's along the line. They're meant to be in defensive mode but yet are happy to keep throwing reserves anywhere Ukraine are making even slight progress.

Hopefully Russia officers are lying about their losses to the top brass and they think the situation is better then it is. Because Ukraine will be much happier in a defensive position picking off Russian's then having to do all the attacking and taking heavy losses themselves.

Being a citizen of a country makes you a part of it and ties you to its actions. Like it or not, the State represents its citizens. If you don't agree with what the State is doing, it is somewhat irrelevant on the macro scale. The people are the State and the State is the people.Your personal beliefs and stances come afterwards and they may mitigate the responsibility if strong enough.

While an individual should not be held liable for the unconnected actions of another individual, they are connected to all actions of the State.

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