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Two-thirds of Texas Prisons Do Not Have Air-Conditioning Leading to Spiralling Death Toll.

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  • 15-08-2023 11:08pm
    #1
    Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Yahya Agreeable Sprinter


    Since a heat wave gripped Texas, at least nine inmates, including two men in their 30s, have died of heart attacks or unknown causes in prisons lacking air conditioning. It’s been 11 years since the state last classified a death as heat-related.

    From 2022...

    Texas heat has killed prisoners and cost the state millions in wrongful death and civil rights lawsuits. Prison rights advocates hope a budget surplus next year will finally push lawmakers to invest in air conditioning.

    Study from 2001-2019

    Last year (2022) a team led by Brown University analysed the more than 2,000 deaths that were recorded in uncooled Texas prisons between 2001 and 2019 and concluded that 13% – some 271 deaths – might be attributable to extreme heat.

    Year on year we have the hottest years on record yet Texas hasn't recorded a heat-related death in over a decade.

    90% of US homes use air-conditioning but apparently it's not needed in the prison system of the 3rd hottest US state.

    I've seen people suggest this falls foul of the 8th amendment (in isolation, I think there's a solid argument) but it's America and if solitary confinement doesn't constitute Cruel & Unusual Punishment, best of luck arguing that a lack of air-conditioning in Texas does.

    Another valid reason why countries do not have an extradition treaty with good ole Uncle Sam.


    Threadbans

    mikethecop

    Post edited by Beasty on


«13

Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Maybe the criminals should have thought about that before doing what they did to bring themselves there.

    I have no sympathy for any criminal in jail, including solitary confinement. We're talking about murderers and rapists and violent thugs, let's be clear about that.

    They didn't pity us when they unleashed crime, so why should we pity them and their living circumstances in jail?

    Tough luck I say.

    If anything, we should be learning from the US about how to actually punish criminals in this country as we are way on the other side with leniency and forgiveness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭TedBundysDriver


    Don't do the crime, don't do the time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname



    You'd have to be completely ignorant of the American justice system to believe that every single person in a prison is actually guilty of a crime.


    Also, since when is death now an acceptable outcome for anybody that ends up in jail? Especially in a state that actually has the death penalty.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I believe that the death penalty should be a choice. Give inmates the possibility of choosing life in jail or the death penalty etc. Many, I assume, will voluntarily choose the latter. This absolves the state of all responsibility, saves an awful lot of money, and implements justice at the same time. But I'd agree with you that a death penalty imposed by the state is a bad idea.

    Nobody said that everyone in jail is guilty. But almost all are, and so we must tailor prisons to that reality and not to the very rare exceptions.

    I don't believe for a second that jails should be "comfortable" environments.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    They shouldn't be 'comfortable' environments for sure but you shouldn't be dying of heat stroke in them either.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,867 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The US is truly a disgusting country in many respects. They incarcerate more people per capita than any other country for profit. Prisoners are still human beings and shouldn't be dying because virtue signalling politicians wish to engage in performative cruelty.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nobody is saying they should be left dying in jail. That would be absurd.

    But only a tiny minority of inmates are dying from heat stroke. The vast, vast majority are simply uncomfortable.

    Whilst more should be done to mitigate against the risk of death, the environment should not be made comfortable for everyone else out of pity.

    Agreed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    That’s sadistic , leaving prisoners in unbearable heat is a lot more cruel than executing them Chinese style , there is no defence or reason behind holding prisoners in those conditions unless stalins Russia circa 1935 is the benchmark



  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭supermans ghost


    Oh here we go again with the America bashing and it’s not even 12 o clock. Let me tell you buddy if it wasn’t for the USA, Ireland would still be a 2nd world economy and more importantly there would not be peace in Northern Ireland.

    The majority of people in prison in the USA are there for good reason and certainly the worst offenders are not what I would consider redeemable Human Beings and deserve everything they have coming to them, maybe you want to invite them into your home for tea and see how that goes.

    A case can be made for people serving prison sentences for certain drug offences that I personally don’t believe serves the common good, but every state has it’s own laws and until such time as that changes, as a poster said earlier “if you can’t do the time, then don’t do the crime’



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    Loss of liberty is the punishment. Burning inmates isn't. Gaol shouldn't be used to torture.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 35,005 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    It absolves the state of making the choice but it doesn't completely absolve them. The state still has to execute the person if they chose to be executed in your scenario. Or at very least assist their suicide.

    Would you offer the option of death to all inmates or only ones guilty of specific crimes? Where is the line drawn?

    Could a suicidal person commit a crime for the purpose of gaining access to your state run elective suicide/execution programme?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,867 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    What evidence do you have that most of them are there for good reason?

    I judge a country on how it treats its most vulnerable people. The USA is a kip in that regard.


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,672 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    From the same lad who's bending over backwards to exonerate the former President.

    Nothing you post surprises me.

    The US prison system is another piece of evidence on how far away America actually is from being considered the greatest country in the world, as it claims to be. Originating out of systemic racism and now driven by the darkest ideals of unfettered capitalism, the country will eventually look on its implementation with embarrassment. Will probably be decades, if not centuries before they get to that point unfortunately.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,385 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    The US justice system hardly has a stellar record. There are miscarriages of justice all over the place and sentencing ridiculous compared to the gravity of the crime in many instances.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Maybe the criminals should have thought about that before doing what they did to bring themselves there.

    That might be valid if so many were not in prison for the crime of being black.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    It's ok folks, only a tiny minority are dying.

    Nothing to see here


    I never realised there was nothing between "feeling uncomfortable" and "death" when it came to heatstroke.



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,355 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Are you really surprised at the blatant edgelording.

    Texas criminal stats don’t support the notion that being a Billy big balls about human rights to prisoners has had a downward effect on recidivism.

    These type of people would be the first to complain if Trump served his time in a Texas prison.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I already said that conditions should not exist that cause heatstroke but, at the same time as that, the conditions should not be comfortable either.

    We should have a tiered prison system. One prison for the absolute scum of the Earth, like murderers and rapists and paedophiles, whose conditions are bordering on the intolerable; and a second prison that handles lesser crimes, for example -- those related to money or drugs -- where conditions are less extreme.

    Taking away the freedom of the most extreme criminals is not good enough. There must be some form of additional discomfort that truly punishes them for the crimes they have committed.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    And many many people are held in jail in the US having not actually been found guilty of anything.

    Three quarters of all people currently incarcerated in California for example, have not been convicted of any crime and there are over 500,000 people in jail across the US in "Pre-Trial confinement" mostly because they cannot afford to pay the bail.

    Some of them have been held there without conviction for YEARS.

    This guy was held for 3 years without trial in Rikers Island from when he was 16 Years old including spending over 400 days in Solitary only for his case to be eventually dismissed. He ultimately committed suicide having never recovered from the ordeal.

    The American prison system and indeed the entire system around bail and pre-trial confinement is completely broken and driven by profits.



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,355 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Sounds like you should move to Singapore. You might be happier there.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,478 ✭✭✭✭Strumms



    extreme heat in the south of the US is not a new thing, it’s getting hotter… be very logistically challenging and risky from a safety perspective I’d imagine to try and retrofit an old prison full of murderers, rapists and miscellaneous violent offenders with aircon…

    can’t just give them fans as they’d be used as weapons… so no simple solutions….

    anyway, a problem roughly 7500 kilometres away so 🤷‍♂️ Won’t be loosing sleep over it. Especially considering the problems here and the absolute shîtshow this country is turning into.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    I believe the current approach is that separation and rehabilitation is better than borderline tortuous conditions. Worth bearing in mind that unpleasant prison conditions doesn't stop prisons from being full of criminals.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Prisoner rights and conditions threads rarely get much attention on boards in my experience- just too far down the list of priorities which reflects a lot on society as a whole and how it treats its prisoners.

    I do reflect some posters views above- America treats many of it’s prisoners appallingly - it doesn’t matter what your crime or alleged crime is, if you’re poor you’ll probably be doing a fair bit of time.

    As for conditions in Texas jails, even the Americans mostly don’t give a darn- and that’s just sad that they’re happy that people already deprived of their freedom for whatever reason have to suffer such inhumanity. Long sentences are the norm for many of these prisoners- 30 to 40 years for crimes they’d be out in less than 10 for in Ireland - that’s serious punishment in itself- roasting them alive isn’t justice it’s torture.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    for whatever reason have to suffer such inhumanity...

    What about the victims of their crimes and their families?

    There is far too much concern for the perpetrators of crime rather than the victims who never get a second thought.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    It didn’t take long for someone to prove my point - you might get loads of thanks for that predictable comment which happens every time this topic is raised on boards- no one is saying victims aren’t important here- absolutely no one- but it is possible, but extremely rare, that a full discussion on the proper treatment of prisoners can’t also take place- I take it then you’re in favour of death by heat to all prisoners. Ok you’ve made your point clear.



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,355 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Proof:

    "You cannot compare Donald Trump's case to the treatment of murderers and rapists in jail in the US.

    To compare the two is beyond ridiculous, and doesn't merit any further discussion from me."

    User has self discredited their own arguments.



  • Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    This hug a thug **** drives me mad as well. There'd be an entirely different tone if those people had someone close to them murdered or raped by some scumbag, I can't imagine they'd be too concerned about the prisoners welfare in that case



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    For sure, it's a very detached way to consider the treatment of inmates.

    The assumption is first made that inmates are vulnerable, have their "human rights", and need to be protected and treated well and proper during their time in jail. It's all very cushions and balloons language.

    I wish the same advocates would sit down with the family of someone who was brutally murdered and have the same tone of conversation.

    I dare say they'd quickly change their minds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    Widespread air conditioning for prisoners across the tropics and equatorial areas of course!

    Let's do a comparison?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    Also hearr attacks and unknown causes? Hmmm



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