Another random person hospitalized after unprovoked attack in Dublin city center

Aodhán's take

https://twitter.com/AodhanORiordain/status/1691361241682358272?s=20

There's not much difference and definitely not enough to proclaim middle class voters decide elections.

There's plenty of votes to be had from all demographics which is why politicians try and pander to everyone.

There IS much difference, and I’ve demonstrated it with an article about voting patterns at a national level written in 2020 by Adrian Kavanagh, whereas your article indicates a narrowing gap in Dublin in voting in 2016 using Adrian Kavanaghs writing as it’s source, more to make the point about social mobility than voting patterns by social class.

It’s how parties representative of the middle classes are elected in sufficient numbers to form a government, whereas parties which claim to represent the interests of people living in poverty and deprivation aren’t even at the races.

In terms of numbers the middle class represents a much larger and more influential voting bloc than the class of people living in poverty and deprivation who can’t be arsed to vote. The closing of the gap in Dublin is more down to the fact that the middle class are becoming less interested in voting as the wealth gap grows and they find themselves on the wrong side of that gap. That’s what motivated the SF ‘protest vote’.

It’s what’s motivating the greater focus in the media on crime of late, to push it up the political agenda, seeing as the public appetite for news about immigrants has waned considerably. Give it another couple of weeks and there won’t be so much as a peep about crime in DCC. There will still be the same levels of crime, poverty and social deprivation in Dublin, it’s just the middle class will have gone back to being disinterested.

Working class and middle classes both pay taxes and both vote for the main parties in various forms.

You appear to be talking about homeless junkies not voting. Which is hardly surprising.

Other places have violence - ergo we should let poxy little teenage scum do whatever they want

I didn’t express any broad an analysis of my own either, only that our social welfare system is far from generous, it’s shìt.

But your more pertinent question was around the idea of breaking the cycle of intergenerational poverty, and that’s how it’s done, that’s how to change things - first, break the cycle, then continue development in order that in the future people are less likely to be dependent upon welfare.

It’s not just people living in poverty are in receipt on welfare btw, the vast majority of the middle classes are also in receipt of welfare in the form of child benefit as a more direct benefit, and education, healthcare and housing as secondary benefits. They’re just not as dependent on welfare as people living in poverty, which is why initial steps don’t have to be enough, they just have to be enough to break the cycle of intergenerational poverty.

I thought we weren’t doing a deep dive analysis? For what it’s worth though, your analysis is a bit shìt, for a couple of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that tenants in social housing never have their rent paid into their hand, it goes the other way, or at least it should, if a social housing tenant is keeping to their rent agreement:

The average weekly rent charge is €72.54 across the Council's 25,159 tenancies. A report due to be presented to DCC's Finance Committee states that just under a third of all these tenancies - 8,050 - are in rent arrear.

And 51 tenants owe more than €27,000 each, while a further 136 owe between €19,000 and €27,000. Another 589 households have rent arrears of between €11,000 and €19,000.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/almost-40-million-owed-dublin-25524294?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

So far as just breaking the cycle of intergenerational poverty goes, I didn’t just mention a couple of evening classes to be fair, I offered a couple of suggestions, which are never likely to be implemented by Government as it’s not in their interests to do so, because the majority of people who do actually vote, aren’t interested in the welfare of those who are eligible to vote, but don’t.

No, it’s very much relevant because it’s the difference between income which they pay tax on, like unemployment benefit for example, and social assistance, which is not income, and therefore nobody pays tax on it. You’re trying to portray it as income which a person receives directly from the tax payer when that’s simply not the case, nor is it free money for the person on the dole.

By your logic, the person on the dole paid for my child’s education, and I paid for the education of my work colleagues six children. It’s a good thing on his salary they don’t need the child benefit, but he’s paying more income tax than I do even though I earn more than he does. I suggested one time it was about time he put a ring on his girlfriends finger… he recoiled in horror at the notion of marriage 😂

Anyways, the other suggestions are contained within this post:

Typical “no facilities” waffle.

so what’s his answer then? Always short on specifics

Bikes are ideal for the city centre, can go anywhere on them.

Police across the world use them but you know better sure...

they've been using bikes for years in Dublin and I've yet to hear of any being thrown into our waterways

you really think these kids would give a f*ck if they were named and shamed? they'd probably take it as an ego boost. have you ever met an angry inner city youth in dublin? they're a different breed.

also, good luck trying to get them to do any kind of community service, what if they just outright refuse? beatings? some of you live in a fantasy world.

Well you do seem a bit glib or you'e honstly missing the point. If the West End of London is the equivlant of Dublin CC I can tell you that I never in many years seen the types of people you see in and around O'Connell St there. The dogey areas would be way outside of that district where tourists and visitors would have no reason to visit. You'd see the odd homeless person after dark but not by day. Pickpocets would be an issue but they were often professionsal ones well dressed. I'm say crime rates in London are proproportialy higher than Dublin overall but the West End of London is famously heavily policed with CCTV cameras everywere.

I see no reason at all why a no loitering policy withing a squale mile area could not be introduced in the CC, treating it as a protected area. Start with the groups say sitting on the borardwalk or loitering outside shops. It would be piss easy to identify the skangers, by the way they dress, by the way they sound, by their accent, by their behaviour. Oh wait a mintue, no can't do that, that would be targeting a demopraphic, computer says no.

And yes I do care, I like Dublin, I like citties, I particualry like to walk all over the place when I visit them, rather than going into buildings, musems and that. Unless the building in a pub or nightclub. Walking in the countryside looking at nettles and biodiverstiy doesn't rock my boat. So yeah I want to have plesant expreince when I'm in a city, it's why I'd be there the first place. And whatever reason the skangers are in the city it's not the same reason as my reason.

What's the point in hanging around all day criticising everyone else's posts? Let's just keep giving them more facilities and hope the future completely surprises us all instead. Would love to hear your solution which does not involve doing the same thing we have been doing and expecting different results? Some folks just need a hiding.