Car usage drops by 1% in over a decade

Beta Ray Bill · 18-08-2023 8:26am #1

Read this article this morning.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/car-usage-drops-by-1-in-over-a-decade-1497796

In a nutshell nothing has changed in terms of Car usage.

Not cycle lanes, not public transport, not working from home etc.

We're one of the worst in the EU for Car dependency

A few little bits/point that I thought were interesting from Professor Brian Caulfield

53% of Dubs vs 80% of Non Dubs (Says rural in the article but there are other cities in the country that are not "Rural") are dependent on their cars

35% of all trips are less than 2km yet the DOT says 90% of Car drivers would "consider using walking, cycling or public transport for shorter trips" - doesn't make sense to me. they are conflicting figures.

3.5 million people are within a 15 min walk of a bus stop. - not sure if this shows that the network is/isn't there or if it just doesn't work

Regardless, it's obvious at this point that Paddy probably doesn't like the car all that much, but has to use it. we've a long way to go.

Podge_irl · 18-08-2023 8:29am

35% of all trips are less than 2km

Regardless, it's obvious at this point that Paddy probably doesn't like the car all that much, but has to use it.

These two statements appear fairly contradictory. In many cases it would appear the point is "Paddy" moans about using the car but uses it when he doesn't have to anyway.

Beta Ray Bill · 18-08-2023 8:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993796#Comment_120993796

I'd agree with you on that. I wonder is that 2km dropping the kids to school/weekly shop? I'm hoping it's not a commute.

Quantum Erasure · 18-08-2023 8:41am

90% of Car drivers would "consider using walking, cycling or public transport for shorter trips"

Yeah, I considered it. And the answer is no.

DownByTheGarden · 18-08-2023 8:45am

I used to cycle to work when the weather was nice.

I used to drive when it wasnt or when I had to drop the kids to school on the way to work.

When the fares dropped to €2 for the 90 minute transfer on public transport I started taking the train and the bus to work even if it took an extra 50 mins when it wasnt my day to drop the kids to school.

If those fares go up or parking at the train station had gone up I would have been back in the car to work.

The price was not really worth it for an extra 50 mins.

What can they do to encourage public transport. Make it cheap enough to offset the extra time it takes. Or make it fast and easy and everywhere, like in most modern cities.

No idea what they are going to do for rural travel because the public transport here for rural areas is dire altogether.

Seth Brundle · 18-08-2023 9:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993849#Comment_120993849

What can they do to encourage public transport. Make it cheap enough to offset the extra time it takes. Or make it fast and easy and everywhere, like in most modern cities.

In the short to medium term, one of the biggest obstacles to a fast and easy public transport system (i.e. busses) is that people would rather go in their cars which increases congestion and slows down public transport. Any attempt to increase space available to public transport meets huge opposition which usually pricks the ears of local populist politicians, etc.

DownByTheGarden · 18-08-2023 9:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993921#Comment_120993921

Time to increasde public transport (not just talk about it for a few decades, actually do it) where there is no space needed then like undergrounds or elevated trains. Or even use space that is readily abvailable and have far more buses, better connected trains and buses and free park and ride outside the M50 on greenfield space near stops for proper public transport into the city.

Noone wants to be driving into congested areas. Make it easy and cheap for them to travel on public transport and they will. shock horror. No point having packed public transport that costs them an hour or two extra each day and only goes part way or has to go out of the way to connect to the next leg.

Beta Ray Bill · 18-08-2023 9:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993921#Comment_120993921

Bus Lanes work ok, Cycle lanes don't work in that there isn't the enough people using them (relative to the people using other forms of transport while commuting) to make a difference, maybe they will in a few years.

I think when people object to Buslanes, what they're really objecting to is the bollarded cycle lane that's going in with it. It should also be noted that DCC will continue on building them despite objections. (East Wall road was is the latest to have a cycle lane put in, design doesn't look great)

DownByTheGarden · 18-08-2023 9:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993956#Comment_120993956

I never use cycle lanes when scommuting on the bike. Well the odd one I do, but when i get closer in to the city center they are full of grannys and cargo bikes. Easier to just use the road. So I guess I am part of the problem but now you have a cycle lane and still cyclists on the road.

Beta Ray Bill · 18-08-2023 9:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993979#Comment_120993979

The problem isn't people, people will do what people will do.

The issue is one of planning and design.

The usual light touch efforts that have never ever worked, have yet again not worked.

the.red.baron · 18-08-2023 9:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993921#Comment_120993921

The problem with public transport in Dublin is it all goes through the city center

No cross town

That's why it takes 50 mins longer no mater what time of the day

Not cars and congestion

If you happen to be commuting to the city center it's actually all right

Seth Brundle · 18-08-2023 9:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993952#Comment_120993952

Undergrounds and any big projects will take years even if planned and developed efficiently.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993956#Comment_120993956

Bus Lanes work ok,

In places. You still get left turning cars blocking them, etc. Look at the congestion along Dublin's quays, etc.

You also have loads of congestion where there aren't bus lanes. Where I live, Leixlip, all busses are delayed because of the volume of cars driving through the village. Someone travelling from Maynooth to the city centre will face almost certain delays in Maynooth, Leixlip and possibly Lucan which add a sizable delays to the journey.

Cycle lanes don't work in that there isn't the enough people using them (relative to the people using other forms of transport while commuting) to make a difference, maybe they will in a few years.

The vast majority of cycle lanes are shite and I know that because I cycle daily. When one uses a cycle path, one pretty much has to yield to road traffic many times along the journey. You also get telegraph poles, cabinets, walkers, dogs, cars parked and so on. Then you have surface issues (holes, shores, most not swept of glass, leaves, etc.). As I said, they're shite!

I think when people object to Buslanes, what they're really objecting to is the bollarded cycle lane that's going in with it. It should also be noted that DCC will continue on building them despite objections. (East Wall road was is the latest to have a cycle lane put in, design doesn't look great)

When people object to buslanes, it is for a myriad of reasons but most often it is because they don't want to lose parking spots. Many parts of Bus Connects were forced into changing.

Seth Brundle · 18-08-2023 9:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994044#Comment_120994044

The problem with public transport in Dublin is it all goes through the city center

No cross town

That's why it takes 50 mins longer no mater what time of the day

There are loads of routes that travel through the city centre.

Plus before someone mentions it, there are also many 24hour services.

Not cars and congestion

Explain please because any busses I get are held up by people in cars. One notable spot is the approach to Dublin's O'Connell St. It has improved but still is a big bottleneck.

If you happen to be commuting to the city center it's actually all right

It possibly depends where you're going but it could and should be much faster.

the.red.baron · 18-08-2023 9:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994092#Comment_120994092

Buses going down the quays for instance north side aren't really held up by cars, similar southside

Same up and down O'Connell Street, you can't use Dame Street Trinity either

It's a disaster to go through there by car

The poster above isn't taking 50 mins longer by bus on a route that is the same or similar to his car journey

It's because it's taking him 50 mins out of their way

People transport isn't designed for real life

It wouldn't even be that hard to fix

Timing belt · 18-08-2023 10:07am

3.5m within 15mim of a bus stop is meaningless because even if there is a regular service there is no guarantee the buss will stop at that bus stop..whether it be bus is always full after first 2/3 stops so won’t take on any more passengers or lack of punctuality as bus get stuck in traffic due to lack of bus lanes etc.

magicbastarder · 18-08-2023 10:17am

isn't fairview a classic example of private traffic holding up buses?

during evening rush hour, everyone queues in the left lane to take the left onto malahide road, buses included, and then the first half kilometre does not have a bus lane (till you get to the junction with griffith avenue.

i know there were plans to CPO front gardens there to widen the road for busconnects, but i don't know what the latest on that is. 30 houses affected - and the way politics works here is that the local councillors will represent the owners of those properties (and they have a right to have their voice heard); but no-one will shout for the people whose lives would benefit from that.

the local councillors in fairview won't care about them - no votes to gain - and the councillors in say coolock will have little sway because it's not their ward.

Chris_5339762 · 18-08-2023 10:29am

East ticketing is still the one. Online tickets or a tap of the credit card, none of this Leap card half baked nonsense. Proper, integrated ticketing across all of Dublin for instance.

In Munich recently and no-one has to interact with the driver at all on the buses. Dwell times were about 15 seconds. If we could replicate that, it would knock tonnes of time off our routings. But no, we have to tell the driver where we are going, takes about 10 - 15 seconds per person.

A flat rate fare should be mandated by the government tomorrow, that would help for a start. The government should fill any farebox gap that DB are worried about.

homer911 · 18-08-2023 10:30am

Get cyclists involved in the design of cycle lanes. Surface the darn things so they are not full of bumps and potholes. Put a grip surface on them that wont get icey when it freezes but wont create excessive drag, make them wide enough to overtake a fellow cyclist, put them at road surface level and not up on the footpath and in behind trees, cut back the vegetation so you don't get your eyes scratched out by brambles, keep them swept so I don't get punctures dodging the broken glass, refresh the paint work regularly so people know they actually exist...

Rant over..

Charles Babbage · 18-08-2023 10:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058309788/car-usage-drops-by-1-in-over-a-decade

What proportion of trips can be conducted on public transport in a similar time? You may have a bus stop near you, but there bus there goes to one place and that may not be the place where you want to go. While there are cases where public transport can be substituted easily, in many cases it cannot and people do not want to limit their horizons to where the public transport planners think that they should want to go to.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994309#Comment_120994309

The 90 minute ticket is a huge improvement in Dublin, most people do not need to talk to the driver, they can just tap their Leap card on the right hand validator.

Seth Brundle · 18-08-2023 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994320#Comment_120994320

Councils are gradulally creating offices to implement cycling & walking projects. However, to introduce new cycling infrastructure for people to replace some of their car journeys with a bike involves taking away road space and we're back to square 1 where you get massive opposition.

More often than not, it has been found that despite the protection offered to cyclists from cars by a line of white paint on the road, more protection is actually needed (bizarrely!) - hence the need for bollards. Nobody wants these but they are implemented simply because people are much less likely to drive into them. However, again you get massive opposition to them even to the point that you get property & bvusiness owners removing them because they want people to lose parking spots. The main problem with these is that they can become cluttered with detritus because they don't get swept.

No matter what way you look at it, in order to increase uptake of public transport and active travel, you more often than not will need to remove road space from cars. In many cases this might be the removal of on-street parking spots. In other cases it might involve removing some or all of a lane of traffic.

The reality is that the car will often be a preferred choice to travel as there are currently few (direct) downsides affecting people. To get those people out of their cars, it needs to be an easy choice for people. Speed, frequency, convenience and to a much lesser extent cost.

ZookeeperDub · 18-08-2023 11:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058309788/car-usage-drops-by-1-in-over-a-decade

Ireland hasn't invested in public transport which is a main issue.

Plus we are increasing one thing, our waist

People are lazy, it's easier to use the car than public transport/bike/walk. Ireland is a tiny country and we should have more people able to leave a car at home yet we continue to see numbers coming out daily saying we are not reducing the car usage.

Paddy loves the car, even when they have other options available. This has always been the case and as we get lazier and lazier thats not going to change

TedBundysDriver · 18-08-2023 11:00am

Rather sit in my car for an hour than cycle in **** weather like today getting into work smelling like a rat.

Fr Tod Umptious · 18-08-2023 11:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993849#Comment_120993849

Or make it fast and easy and everywhere, like in most modern cities.

But it's not fast and easy and everywhere in most modern cities.

Go to any modern city in the world and live as a commuter and you'll find reasons to complain and find that most commuters complain.

I used to go to Dusseldorf for work, a few weeks a few times a year.

I loved the DBhan, the UBhan, the SBhan.

I thought they were really good, cheap, efficient etc.

But the locals hated them.

ZookeeperDub · 18-08-2023 11:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994492#Comment_120994492

Same in Berlin, similar in NL. I used them daily and loved the system. It was incredible. yet ask a local and they said it was poor. I hated trying to explain what you got in Dublin. A poxy taxi from the airport. My better half had to take a taxi last night and the entire journey the drivers was revving the car to make the metre go up. Even after asking twice to stop it he just started talking to try hide it. Disgrace

DownByTheGarden · 18-08-2023 11:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994320#Comment_120994320

As a 1 - 200km a week cyclist and a 50km a week driver, Id say keep cyclists well away from any road improvement decisions :)

Removing road space is totally the wrong way to go forward. If they had built the metro for instance instead of talking about it for 20 years or more, imagine how many trips that would have taken off the road already. We could be at a point now where a metro was in place and in use and we are now today thinking about making Swords metro stops a hub, with plenty of park and ride and buses and a metro coming and going from lots of different places. If we had done that people wouldnt need to be in a car and if they did need to be they could easily and cheaply transfer on to public transport by now. But no, here we are having just talked and tried to remove roadspace and put in cycle lanes etc and its not working and wont work.

Doctor Jimbob · 18-08-2023 11:09am

I'm probably echoing a lot of points already made but car use is not going to drop significantly until public transport and cycling infrastructure are taken seriously. Let's start with cycling. I like to cycle. I live in Dublin. Dublin is better than most of the country for cycling infrastructure, but it's still not great. Cycle lanes are often poorly maintained, with potholes, broken glass, and branches on them. Even when are well-maintained, they often only exist for part of a journey - sometimes they go in a different direction, and sometimes they disappear entirely for no apparent reason. Cars are often parked on them, whether they're allowed to or not, and nothing is done about it. The cycle lanes that are alongside footpaths are often better maintained but frequently have people walking or standing on them instead of using the footpath.

Public transport is a bit better, but it's still not great. I live outside the city centre, where buses are quite infrequent and much slower than driving. If I want to take the bus to work, I need to leave over an hour earlier than I would if I drive. The bus frequently gets stuck in traffic, even where there are bus lanes, partly because people are allowed to drive in bus lanes with absolutely no consequences. The nearest train station has no bus connection. I'm from rural Ireland and I know things are far worse there but even in Dublin, public transport and cycling just aren't viable for a lot of people.

SuperBowserWorld · 18-08-2023 11:15am

The only people interested in public transport are those who have to use it.

People who don't need to use it do not care. They really don't care. In fact they think it's hilarious that other people have to use public transport.

There is no public support for good public transport and how this facilitates a society and economy to grow, be inclusive and be fairer.

We don't do the big picture thing in Ireland. Never had. It's all about house prices going up. It's the only metric Mary and Johnny care about.

Mary and Johnny will wring their hands about Johnny Jnr having to pay 10k for accommodation in Dublin or having to drive 4 hours a day to college. But they will do SFA about it and continue to vote for the same people their grandparents voted for. Or that time, little Mary had to get up at 4 in the morning to make a hospital appointment in Dublin. Ah god bless us and save us. And oh, god isn't the parking just terrible around the children's hospital.

And Galway like urban development will just be repeated all over the country.. Amen

ExoPolitic · 18-08-2023 11:15am

What did they expect when they don't invest in serious transport infrastructure? Ireland invested in roads since joining the EU, we have an amazing motorway network, so expect people to want to use that because it's the only useful piece of new infrastructure we have.

DownByTheGarden · 18-08-2023 11:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994469#Comment_120994469

I dont mind getting wet cycling. What i dont like is the extra 15 or 20 minutes i used to have to spend to get a shower in work before work so i didnt stink out the office. And i was one of the lucky ones with a shower in the office. But its yet more additional time to your commute having to get a shower in there. When driving i could have a nice relaxing shower the night before and have a bit of extra sleep in the mornings.

cgcsb · 18-08-2023 11:21am

1% drop is good considering that we have no new public transport in that time except Luas Cross city and some town bus routes, we also have a grand total of what, 20km?? of correctly designed cycle lane in Dublin.

It shows that people want to change habits there's just no infrastructure to support that change.

Maybe build proper infrastructure, crazy thought I know, and then greater change will happen.

cgcsb · 18-08-2023 11:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994517#Comment_120994517

There are no real cycle lanes in Dublin except the coastal route and a few short sections along the canals so not sure how you can conclude that building cycle lanes will not work. It has worked everywhere else in the world it just hasn't been attempted here.

Car usage drops by 1% in over a decade

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